Trip atop a Wind Turbine

[480sparky]

okay I watched the video and listened to the sounds of the wind turbine in the video it would be like living next to a rail road track....

Problem is, most home recording devices aren't really desinged to accurately record audio. Yea, they do a real nice job of picking up sounds at a party, or the kids playing in the back yard, but there's really no relevance to what it records.

Only true testing equipment can truly tell what decible level, etc. the things produce.

 

[iwire]

Problem is, most home recording devices aren't really desinged to accurately record audio. Yea, they do a real nice job of picking up sounds at a party, or the kids playing in the back yard, but there's really no relevance to what it records.

I agree, most home recording equipment will have some sort of auto gain control that will kill any ability to determine the level of one sound to another.

 

[iwire]

Zog first off let me say straight out that your knowledge of nukes far exceeds mine. :smile: I do not want anyone to think I am any kind of nuke expert.

I was going more towards the fact that the nuke industry is more regulated with more safety procedures and system requirements, making it much safer

No doubt they are more regulated, but I still ask 'safer then what?' what is the unit of measurement. The fact that it is a highly regulated operation does not change what can happen.

How many nuke plants do you think are in the U.S.(Not counting the 150 or so the U.S. Navy has anchored right in the ports of some of our largest cities)? No googling, just want to know what you think.

No Goggling, well thats just not fair. :smile:

I really have no idea so this is a wild guess, 30?

Thats because average people, when they think about nuclear power, think about Chernobyl, Chernobyl was a breeder design that is illeagal in the US, it had a positive temperature coeficient of reactivity, where as a PWR (What we use here) uses good old water as a moderator and has a negative coeficient of reactivity. Translation, it cant "blow up"

Sure Chernobyl comes to mind immediately but so does Three mile island and that was a water cooled reactor with full containment. If I recall correctly human error resulted in the good old water being let out of the reactor causing a massive overheating condition that resulted in the release of radioactive steam and threated to melt down through the base of the reactor. It caused a large evacuation of people down wind.

The fact the operating company tried to hide the problems from the public and I think the NRC as well is very troubling.

Now that said, we learn from our mistakes and no emerging technology is perfect out of the gate. I really believe we have little choice but to go with more nuke plants.

I have to be honest though, if they wanted to build one in my neighborhood I would likely move.

 

[cschmid]

Bob You have never lived in the country have you..I live in the country so I do not have to put up with the noise of the city..I enjoy the quite..sitting on the deck listening to Gods creation (wild life) I find relaxing..not the sound of man building more machines trying to speed through the short period we call life..

The Amish do have some good Ideas like Family is the most Important thing and the things like Electricity, phones, tv, internet are all excesories not necesities..we in our society have forgotten that these items were great extras yet our society has become to deem them as nessecities now..So maybe we as a Society need to examine our piorities..so are the sacrifies being made nessecary..the guy on the U-tube video would probabully say he could do with out the advancement of wind turbines..

So where do all of your values lay..

methane produced from rotting biodegradeable substances in a land fill that has been dug up and lined is just being vented into the atmosphere, although I do not know how much is vented whether it is a viable amount or not..

Burning garbage is creating pollution but I believe there could be other ways to handle that pollution..Yet most methane is from fecal waste and that is just pumped out into the rivers, oceans or irrigated on to the earth after it has been treated with a bunch of labatory chemicals..

So If I read correctly the majority are not overly impressed with wind power or solar power..So I am exploring options as we move toward a society pushing to become the green society of the world we need to come up with Ideas..

I read where a sientiest created this jiro machine that purified water and could creat an amount of electricity like the amount a small generator would produce..

 

[zog]

Zog first off let me say straight out that your knowledge of nukes far exceeds mine. :smile: I do not want anyone to think I am any kind of nuke expert.

As does your knowledge of the NEC exceed mine, but nukes are my job.

No doubt they are more regulated, but I still ask 'safer then what?' what is the unit of measurement. The fact that it is a highly regulated operation does not change what can happen.

Any way you look at the statistics, fossil plants are more dangerous, plant fatalaities, injuries, etc....

No Goggling, well thats just not fair. :smile:

I really have no idea so this is a wild guess, 30?

103 operational in the US right now, with 14 more on the way in various stages of construction. (There are 4 in your state)

Sure Chernobyl comes to mind immediately but so does Three mile island and that was a water cooled reactor with full containment. If I recall correctly human error resulted in the good old water being let out of the reactor causing a massive overheating condition that resulted in the release of radioactive steam and threated to melt down through the base of the reactor. It caused a large evacuation of people down wind.

Very good, several safety systems were bypassed and a lot of lessons were learned from TMI, sure changed the way us nukes do things procedure wise.

The fact the operating company tried to hide the problems from the public and I think the NRC as well is very troubling.

Who do you really think kept the info from the public?

Now that said, we learn from our mistakes and no emerging technology is perfect out of the gate. I really believe we have little choice but to go with more nuke plants.

.

Last plant went on line in the 70's, technology and materials have come a long way.

 

[cschmid]

I thought I read where there were no more nuclear plant permits issued..is this true..and are there any slated to come online in the near future..and waste how is that handled..

 

[zog]

I thought I read where there were no more nuclear plant permits issued..is this true..and are there any slated to come online in the near future..and waste how is that handled..

It is a long process, here is the current status.

http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-licensing/new-licensing-files/new-rx-licensing-app-legend.pdf

 

[cschmid]

thanks man..

 

[Denis]

vindkraft vs. nuclear

vindkraft vs. nuclear

for a full report on the future of nuclear: www.verein-der-ingenieure.de/ak/energietechnik/doc/areva-renaissance.pdf

and as for me: studying wind http://www.iowalakes.edu/programs_study/industrial/wind_energy_turbine/index.htm








hopefully I will be working on vindkraft in Sveden

 

[rabtrfld]

Be thankful that George's AC system beat Tom's DC preference. Otherwise we'd have a generator plant every 2-3 blocks.... everywhere.

This is off topic, but our POCO took the xfmrs off the poles and put them in our yards. All the 14400 is buried. I always thought aerial wires were unsightly, most are OK, but some areas look like the 3rd world.

But now there is a "plant" for every 6 houses! That will take some getting used to.

BTW I always thought it was Tom vs. Nikola.

 

[dereckbc]

Well I live in TX and Tx produces more wind energy than any other state in the union, and more than any foreign country. I am not trying to rain on anyone?s green party but wind generation has some serious issues just like solar. We have had some serious Black-Outs here in TX directly attributed to wind generation.

To start wind electrical generation is variable and cannot match the dynamic needs of electrical demand. Use of electricity varies widely through the day, week, and year, but wind plants generate electricity by the whims of the wind rather than the actual demand of the grid. So what TXU and other utilities have learned to combat this issue is for every watt being produced by wind, they must have conventional sources (coal, gas, etc) standing by ready to go on line in an instant, so any power produced by wind plants is therefore in practice superfluous. The backup generation is already providing it.

I could point out some other flaws, but that is the main issue IMO.

Oh there is one more thing related to the above. On paper here in TX wind makes up 10% generating capacity, but in practice only delivers less than 1% of TX electrical needs.

 

[winnie]

Dereck points out an important issue with wind and solar power: they are not 'dispatchable'. The wind blows when the wind blows.

Of course, most of the loads connected to the grid are also not dispatchable, so we should be able to tolerate a certain amount of wind power. But add too much, and you will start seeing reliability problems.

IMHO properly implementing wind power and integrating it with the grid will require implementing various tricks to strengthen the grid, such as smart load shedding (oh, the wind has died; turn off water heaters), and adding loads that are specifically designed to compensate for supply variability. This means additional costs, and those costs should be considered part of the cost of implementing wind power.

-Jon

 

[Mr. Bill]

When wind starts getting to be a larger percentage of generating capacity there would need to be something like pumped-storage hydroelectricity to carry the grid thru when there's no wind. And/or if the grid is large enough then energy can be shifted from where there is wind to areas the have just lost wind.

Some german guy did a study to see if 100% of Europe's electricity could be generated by renewables. Here's his summary. I don't see many numbers to dig into though.
http://www.risoe.dk/rispubl/reports/ris-r-1608_186-195.pdf

 

[cschmid]

When It comes to energy consumption, the media, education and Public utilities all have there own ajenda..now so do the seria club and other enviromental groups..

this leaves us in a position as the electrical industry has not really even suffered in the current econnomic crisis..this is kind of an indicator as to the consumption of electricity our country has and the profit that the POCOs are recieving..

As everyones ajenda move forward it leaves us in the electrical industry to figure out the supply and consumption end of things..we need to be helping in the area of what is feasable and what is affordable to the public as we are the designers and the installers..

so payback verses out of pocket exspense do not always come together and alternative fuels are not always cost effective..

 

[masterinbama]

I noticed you were all talking noise pollution and what not. I just noticed I Wires link to the Saturn V launch. I watched these tests from my back yard in the 1960's. I have even done some work on that test stand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3sVuFjJlp4