Trouble shooting ?

[jmsbrush]

Went to a house today! 3 receptacles 1 switch and light are not working. they are all in the same room. Its an old house. I checked every box. There is now power. All connections are good. I have no lost neutrals. At the breaker box I got 120 at every breaker to the neutral bus. I also checked every piece of romex with my tick tracer in the part of the attic that I was able to acess, and there was voltage on every piece of romex as well. They said lighting hit close to the house yesterday. There is no surge protection on the panel but everything in the house is working fine. Besides that room. There's no way I can get acess in the attic to see if theres damage wires. Any thoughts please??

 

[brian john]

1. Was the neutral intact, measure voltage from neutrals to know live circuit.
2. Did you check continuity between all effected components?
3. Did you back feed the circuit? to verify all component work this way?
4. Did you open up all surrounding boxes and check for wiring issues?

 

[cadpoint]

Did you dig up the house ground and re-tork it ?

 

[jmsbrush]

1. Was the neutral intact, measure voltage from neutrals to know live circuit.
2. Did you check continuity between all effected components?
3. Did you back feed the circuit? to verify all component work this way?
4. Did you open up all surrounding boxes and check for wiring issues?

yes to all except to number 3

 

[jmsbrush]

Did you dig up the house ground and re-tork it ?

If I would have lost my grounding electrode connection I would have alot more problems than that correct?

 

[brian john]

If I would have lost my grounding electrode connection I would have alot more problems than that correct?

NO you would not even know it occured.

As for doing all I mentioned, hate to say it you overlooked something.

Once had a break in a wall, it was a spliced connection PIA to locate.

Did you look in every location for hidden J-boxes?

 

[gar]

080614-1838 EST

jmsbrush:

Run a 3 wire extension cord from an outlet near the main panel, or at least from known good connections to the main panel.

Now you have three voltage reference points or voltage sources.

From the extension cord hot wire connect a lamp, 100 W is probably suitable. The other lead of the lamp connect to each of the neutral points in the room. If the room neutral is reasonably good the lamp should light. If it lights measure the voltage from the room neutral to your extension cord EGC. Should be very low voltage drop because there is only 1 A flowing back to the panel in the neutral. This will verify your neutral.

Next connect one one lamp end to your extension cord neutral. The other lamp lead is used to test for power to the room circuit hot line. Test it to the switch as well. No lamp light anywhere and you have an open hot wire.

With no lamp measure the voltage from your extension cord EGC to each of the room circuit hot wires. If you read some voltage there is a small break in the hot circuit somewhere. If you read nearly full voltage, then there is a high resistance point somewhere.

See if you can identify what breaker supplies this room. If you can assume from the above measurements that the wiring might be good, then put a load on that room circuit (the 100 W bulb). What is the voltage from the breaker output to neutral at the breaker box?

If there is definitely no voltage at the room circuit, then connect a tone grnerator to that circuit and try to trace the wire with the tone receiver. This may allow you to find the break.

.

 

[ultramegabob]

how did they bring power to the lights? did they bring it to the switch box or did they bring it to the light first? if they brought it to the light first, you will need to drop the fixture and check connections, look in all closets for light swithches and pullchains, look to see if there is an outside recept that could be tied into the circuit. it could be anywhere, you just have to keep looking....

 

[quogueelectric]

Check the pool timer for on trips removed this is most likely the problem. Put your ear to this wall to verify proper operation.

 

[quogueelectric]

Check the pool timer for on trips removed this is most likely the problem. Put your ear to this wall to verify proper operation.

Hey I was just kidding about the pool timer. 1st is the wiring aluminum or copper . You lost a feed to a bedroom it will be in one of the recepticles closest to the bedroom but not in the bedroom as you already checked in there. now go find it probably high amperage draw outlet like a hall (vacuum) outlet wasnt tightened on 1 screw and finally burned up. Was there an air conditioner pluged in to one of these bedroom outlets?? It will be very close to the bedroom or possibly tied downstream of a tripped gfci receptacle see if the neutral rings out to ground.

 

[jmsbrush]

NO you would not even know it occured.

As for doing all I mentioned, hate to say it you overlooked something.

Once had a break in a wall, it was a spliced connection PIA to locate.

Did you look in every location for hidden J-boxes?

I agree with you .I am missing something. One of the problems with the house, is that it is so messy and I can't even get to some of the walls. The home owner says there are no more recept's but who knows. Very aggrevating.

 

[jmsbrush]

how did they bring power to the lights? did they bring it to the switch box or did they bring it to the light first? if they brought it to the light first, you will need to drop the fixture and check connections, look in all closets for light swithches and pullchains, look to see if there is an outside recept that could be tied into the circuit. it could be anywhere, you just have to keep looking....

The power goes to the light 1st :-? , and there are no closet lights

 

[jmsbrush]

there are no GFI's in the entire house inside or out!

 

[mivey]

I would not start by believing the homeowner but if want to believe them about the receptacle locations:

1st: see post #10
2nd: see post #8
3rd: see post #7
4th: What about under the house?

 

[Cow]

Sounds like a good job for an Amprobe 2005.

 

[quogueelectric]

Sounds like a good job for an Amprobe 2005.

Im gonna cry.
Noone gets it I use the thing all the time and all it does is make the other guys look stupid and then they hate me .
I cant bang that drum loud enough I am only trying to help everyone have the same edge thet I enjoy and then the fun begins because I actually read the instruction book.
This stuff amazes me every day it would take me 5 min to walk to my truck and get it 5 min to hook it up and 5 min to trace to the problem.
1200bucks retail 400 on ebay for me and I find the problems within an inch or two.

 

[e57]

All of the above - especially Gar's & mivey's.... Now.... When you say "Old House" - you mention romex - but not if it has a EGC or not. AN EGC is the best to check voltage H-G, N-G - it is a good reference point IMO. (If originally wired proper)

I will ad this - map the circuit on paper with a line diagram as you go along - I find this helps to visualize the circuits operation.

I usually take one one dead outlet or light and follow box to box and open the hot splices and ring out to the nearest adjacent box as I go to confirm.

Then ask myself - "How would I wire it?" Use my imagination and try to picture whats in the walls.

One of the dead items is the last in the line on the circuit - another is the last before you find the problem. (Highlight my signature below :wink: )

For this type of problem - just put the volt tick away - it will only confuse you. It is only made to warn you of "possible voltage" while working for safety reasons - not to measure or confirm such - for instance - rub it against your shirt....

Anyway.... Confused by something here...

I checked every box. There is now power. All connections are good.

If there is "now" power - whats the problem? If there is "NO" power - You may not have checked every box and the connections must not be all that great.... (Rare but not impossible for cables to go bad in the wall)

And I will repeat - what-ever the owner says about lightning or 'power surges' must be looked at as a red herring until confirmation is made by the pro - you.... Whenever I hear that type of tripe I think to myself - I bet that 'Joe HO' replaced a switch or outlet himself and it too weak to admit he has no idea what he did to mess it up....

 

[ultramegabob]

The power goes to the light 1st :-? , and there are no closet lights

alot of electricians bring power to the lightfixture and drop a switch leg to the switch box by running a single piece of romex, usually making the white in the cable hot and the black the return switch leg (the black and white from one cable are both on the switch), there is no grounded conductor in that type of switch box. the reason they do that is to conserve wire, personally I dont care for that methode. you can find alot of crazy splices in light fixture boxes in older houses, dont use "your" logic to running a circuit when your troubleshooting someone elses work, you just have to methodically check everything.....

 

[growler]

Went to a house today! 3 receptacles 1 switch and light are not working. they are all in the same room. Its an old house. I checked every box.

You don't normally see 3 receptacles and one fixture on a circuit by it's self so part of the circuit is probably working. If this is an old house then the rest of the circuit can be any place. Check receptacles on other side of the wall.

After a lightning strike the most common problem that I have found is a wire loose at a back stabbed receptacle. My guess is that the power from the strike just blows that sucker right out of there if it's loose to start with and many are loose. Thus the weakest link is the problem.

If have found many without a signal tracter but if it takes over a few minutes then a signal tracter is just the thing.

 

[brian john]

The home owner says there are no more recept's but who knows. Very aggrevating.

Then you find a hidden outlet and the home owner says, oh yeah that's the one I usually plug the frig in to but it does not work.