Troubleshoot this!

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George Stolz

George Stolz

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Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
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Hospital Master Electrician
A riddle:

Got a call a while back for a bad receptacle for a TV in a bedroom. The woman said that sometimes in the middle of the night her TV would lose power, and then spontaneously come back on later.

The journeyman running the job had gone out for it, removed the wires from the stab-ins, and pigtailed all the receptacles, thinking it was a loose neutral. It happened again, and she said that she had to plug her TV into the Bath GFI with an extension cord to watch TV.

I get sent in while the j-man was away, to fix it. She lets me know that she tried a different TV in the house, same results. Try some things, scratch my head, tell her to call while the problem is happening, because at the time everything was working.

She calls again, says it's happening, and plugging into her bath GFI had the same results, so I think, loose connection at service or panel. No such luck.

Everything is ok. What's the problem? Bear in mind, two different TV's were used and the problem persisted. :)

[ February 06, 2005, 02:15 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
Re: Troubleshoot this!

Any chance the receptacles used are all on the same circuit? I know they aren't supposed to be, but in the old houses where I work, it's rare that I find wiring that is actually up to code.

Since two different TVs were used, it's probably not the TVs. My suspicion is you're looking at one circuit covering both rooms, and there's a loose neutral or hot somewhere in the circuit.

Other possibilities that spring to mind are harmonics or voltage-drop interfering with the solid-state electronics of the TVs (what other loads are on that circuit?). But before investigating these theories, I'd see if the problem also occurs to a plain old incandescent light plugged into the receptacles in question. If it does, I'd say you've got a loose wire. Just hope it's not in a j-box buried behind a finished wall (something I also encounter quite regularly).
 
Re: Troubleshoot this!

Sounds allot like a home we have gone back to all to many times for smokes going off at different times of the day.had homeowner call poco and ask for load demand test.Telling them it has to be on poco`s side of the fence.All our connections tight and good.Well as it turned out there was a loose neutral on poco`s end.Just a thought ;)
 
Re: Troubleshoot this!

I would think a loose neutral on the POCO side would cause problems with more than just the TVs. That would cause problems on all the circuits except the 240V ones.
 
Re: Troubleshoot this!

I've only given this a tiny bit of thought but I'm so amused with what I've come up with that I can't stop laughing now and clear thought wont be an option for a while.

She's been falling asleep on the remote.
sleeping-smiley-009.gif



laughing-smiley-014.gif
 
Re: Troubleshoot this!

Yea, Cable TV sends a "bullet" through the encoder box to ensure nobody is stealing cable channels with an illegal box.
This happens with my TV often, they do it around 4 in the morning.
 
Re: Troubleshoot this!

(1)I had a situation where the homeowners' new 80" TV would shut off if they ran their vacuum cleaner. (Plugged into the same circuit) It was a voltage drop problem. I explained it to them and showed them how the voltage drops for a second when the vacuum starts and then it returns to normal. You could turn the TV back on once the vacuum was running. The vacuum pulled around 11.5 amps! I figured the TV must have some type of "Low Voltage Protection" that would shut off before it damaged it's electronic components.

(2) Although I think an open neutral could be the culprit (You dont ALWAYS notice all of the circuits it is affecting) I would say it's a loose Ungrounded conductor. (If both the bath GFCI and the bedroom circuit are fed from the same phase...if they are not, I'm going with the open nuetral!)


(3)Are the tv's the same brand? (Same Remote Control frequency?)
I've seen remote Dimmers turn up the volume on a stereo already! Could be Joe shmow getting home from 2nd shift and hitting his remote for his garge door (Same frequency) and it's shutting off her tv.

*I need to know if she can turn it back on when this happens?

(4)Neighbor might have the same remote control.

(5) Someone, at sometime tapped off of her "Off Peak" metering system and installed a sub panel which happens to feed both of these circuits. The timer on the off-peak system is screwed up so it is shutting off at night instead of turning on.

(6) She's making it up just to get young men to come to her house!

(7) something other than anything I've mentioned!

Dave
 
Re: Troubleshoot this!

Hold on, I got it. The channel she was watching "Signs off" at midnight, then begins broadcasting again in the morning.

I'm right, right?!?!?!?

Dave
 
Re: Troubleshoot this!

It was a new house, the bath GFI was seperate as it should be.

Originally posted by davedottcom:
(3)Are the tv's the same brand? (Same Remote Control frequency?)
Click to expand...
You're barking up the right tree! The two TV's in question were purchased on the same day, sequential serial numbers. They were both defective.

When I got there the last time, the TV was acting up, and plugged into the bath GFI. I left it plugged in, stuck my plug tester into the duplex that was meant for the TV, and it was fine. I walked over to the bath GFI, it was fine. Confused but thinking I knew the problem, I checked torque on the service and panel lugs, since the problem involved two different circuits. They were fine.

I walked back upstairs, unplugged the TV from the extension cord it was on, noticed a small arc when doing so--the TV was drawing power. I checked the cord, it was all right. Plugged the TV into it's rightful outlet, and lo and behold it worked.

That's when I starting questioning her about the other TV, 'cause this one obviously had issues. Turns out they were identical, purchased on the same day, side by side. :D

*I need to know if she can turn it back on when this happens?
Click to expand...
Not by the remote or buttons. But the act of unplugging it and plugging it back in reset it, so when she unplugged it and plugged it into the bath GFI, it would reset, making the problem look like the bedroom outlet for the TV. :D

[ February 06, 2005, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
Re: Troubleshoot this!

I had a Magnavox TV that the remote quit working on 1st time took it back to Costco,and exchanged it,2nd time just had to get up and change channels,the living room is the only room where lighting and receptacles share the same circuit, when removing bad bulb in ceiling fan,then breaker tripped,and found out later remote started to work again,so when ever it happened again just unplugged it.
 
Re: Troubleshoot this!

Originally posted by alan mcneil:
Yea, Cable TV sends a "bullet" through the encoder box to ensure nobody is stealing cable channels with an illegal box.
This happens with my TV often, they do it around 4 in the morning.
Click to expand...
Are you sure about that???
 
Re: Troubleshoot this!

Are you sure about that???
Click to expand...
That's true. It destroys any receivers that are not supposed to be receiving! They often do it during highly watched shows like the Super Bowl!!! So anyone that has a "Bootleg" receiver, TODAY would be a good day to disconnect it!!!

Go EAGLES!

Dave
 
Re: Troubleshoot this!

That was gonna be my next guess.

Both TV's were bought at a the same, had sequensial serial no.s and were both defective. :D
 
Re: Troubleshoot this!

Originally posted by allenwayne:
Why an urban legend.Satelite companys do it all the time to fry illegally burnt cards.
Click to expand...
Do we have any proof of that either?

I would really like to know the technical details of how either of these 'bullets' would work and could be so selective.

Hey I could be wrong, but this just sounds more like an urban legend than reality.
 
Re: Troubleshoot this!

I'm told that the satelite sends out a signal which can determine what channels they are receiving...it then matches that info to their account info (What channels they are paying for)...if they don't match, it completely blocks their access to the satelite signal. The card will no longer work but not because it is "Fried", it just is no longer valid. It doesn't harm the receiver itself. If the card is not inserted when the signal is sent it is not affected and will continue to work.
No, I have no proof! :(

Dave
 
Re: Troubleshoot this!

My aunt used to work for the cable company.

What you describe is a long going urban legend.

What liability do you think the cable company would have for purposely sending a 'bullet' that can destroy equipment?

If someone is stealing cable service, the cable company can prosecute, but they can't just go sending some kind of 'destroying agent'.
 
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