Troubleshooting time......

[R Bob]

Well I just spoke with the EC. I ask if he would megger the line. He said they don't own that expensive testing device. (I don't have one either, but then again I don't do electrical day in and out). He tapped danced around the used breaker and said his guy would be outh there later this morning.

It is kinda fun not being the one in the crosshairs for a change

c2500

Find another electrician.

It does sound as if the situation is such that the problem can be isolated with a Wiggy, but his response doesn't exactly instill confidence.

On another note, continually resetting the CB accomplishes nothing but to confirm what we already know...that there is a problem.

Use test equipment to isolate and repair the problem, then reset the CB.

I guess if you reset the CB enough times it will burn the fault clear or the CB will fail/blow-up (believe me, this can happen) and the problem still exists.

 

[c2500]

Now for the update.....

Now for the update.....

I met the EC at the place this morning. Sadly, I missed the explosion by 2 minutes. He changed the breaker again, turned it on, and an old repair of the UF, located at the "code approved" 2.5 inches below the ground shorted and blew apart the plastic surrounding a previous repair. He described it as a shotgun going off. One butt splice was melted through...(the ground) and one leg was intact, the other had one strand left. It was #6 UF with 2 wires and a ground. Once fixed, the A/C worked fine and the elderly woman won't die from the heat.

It killed me telling him to patch it instead of running EMT. WHen I have some time one of these years I'll have to redo it on my dime. I can only assume they did not inspect the work in 1979 to make sure things were buried to a code approved depth. On that note...when did the NEC begin dictating the burial depth of UF?

Thanks,

c2500

 

[Cow]

It killed me telling him to patch it instead of running EMT.

You want to direct bury EMT?

I don't know why everyone thinks you need a megger for this job. A megger is used to find insulation leakage. If you have enough of a short to trip a 50 amp breaker then even an ohm meter should confirm it's shorted.

All a megger would tell you is that you have a short and I think you already know that. What's needed is to locate and repair or replace.

This sounds like a response from a guy who doesn't own a megger and would rather make excuses. Obviously, a megger would tell you if there is a short. But, it would also tell you that once the short is found and isolated, if the rest of the cable is compromised as well and not worth repairing. But what do I know...

 

[c2500]

You want to direct bury EMT?

NO.

I mean run emt from the panel around the building to the disconnect. On the otherhand, I could put the UF in it and at least give it a chance to work.

c2500

 

[480sparky]

You want to direct bury EMT?

Don't you?

 

[Cow]

Don't you?

Yes, badly.

 

[bradleyelectric]

If the AC breaker trips, wouldn't you simply disconnect the circuit at the disco (or at the unit if no disco) and try to reset?

That narrows it down to the feed or the unit.

If the circuit is good, the next step would be to disconnect the compressor or motor(s) and try again. If it's a condensor or evaporator motor and it's mine, I will replace it myself. If it's a customers unit, I tell them to call an AC guy.

I have replaced a couple burned up disconnects.

 

[growler]

It killed me telling him to patch it instead of running EMT. WHen I have some time one of these years I'll have to redo it on my dime. I can only assume they did not inspect the work in 1979 to make sure things were buried to a code approved depth. On that note...when did the NEC begin dictating the burial depth of UF?

Why did the EC let you tell him how to repair the problem? When I go on a service call I inform the customer of the problem, tell them how much it will cost for a safe installation and it's their choice if they want to have the work done.

I wouln't repair something like that because it would not be considered safe. There is no way for the owner to give his permission.

Half the motels around here have UF running just below ground and I have never just patched it. I tell them if it was done right the first time I would repair it but since it was just thrown out there it will require a new and correct installation to be safe.

 

[growler]

NO.

I mean run emt from the panel around the building to the disconnect. On the otherhand, I could put the UF in it and at least give it a chance to work.

c2500

Why EMT? PVC is just as easy to work with and then just pull in some new #6. Or better yet check the A/C unit and see what is required. There are not many A/C condensors that require a 50 amp breakers or #6. You could have one of those units that do require that size breaker but I would check.

Do something once and do it right and it will never give any future problems. They have probably worked on this rig at least a half dozen times over the years instead of doing it right once.

 

[c2500]

I would use emt because that is what a few of the other updates done around the structure have had. This particular building has 16 units. I had to make the call on the repair for two reasons...price for the first, and since I am president it could be construed that I received something better than someone else. The patch was not what I would personally do, but in a 144 unit complex, I have to consider the expense of the repair.

As for the wire size, that is what was installed in 1979. This particular building formerly had a how water heating system. Now it is via a heatpump in each unit. The original units did not need that size wire, but back then I was in middle school.

As for repairs, who knows who has done what. One of these days I will probably go fix it correctly.

c2500