Troubleshooting

[fisherelectric]

I had this problem one time and it took me an hour to find a fish pond heater in the back yard that the homeowner had run romex to underground out of his basement. When the heater came on it would run a few minutes and trip. Home owner forgot to tell me about the heater in the pond not working despite an hour of me checking everything I could think of on that circuit.

 

[A1cbr]

Went back to the house today and I found the problem.
Turns out in the back yard there is a shop and well the wire feeding the shop seems to be the culprit. The shop is connected to one of the receptacles in the master bedroom. Disconnected the wire from the rest of circuit and problem fix. Home owner was happy that the problem was fixed, but did not want the wire repaired that went to the shop.

 

[Buck Parrish]

, but did not want the wire repaired that went to the shop.

Typical HO, I hope you charged him double.

 

[Sparky555]

Typical HO, I hope you charged him double.

Yea, my favorite job is fixing weekend warrior work & telling his wife it would have been MUCH cheaper if I just did the original installation.

Dave

 

[SEO]

Yea, my favorite job is fixing weekend warrior work & telling his wife it would have been MUCH cheaper if I just did the original installation.

Dave

Ive' used that phrase many times. How about an owner that says, is that all it was I could have fixed it myself.

 

[Cow]

Typical HO, I hope you charged him double.

Your making an assumption.

How do you know it wasn't the previous homeowner who did the work? Or do you just try to double charge them regardless?

 

[S'mise]

Good job finding it A1cbr. I agree with Cow, It's likely a previous owner did it. Every place I ever lived had hidden issues. Can't always blame the curent owner.

 

[electricalperson]

invest in a megger and megger the circuit with all loads.lightbulbs, electronic devices including smoke detectors, gfci's and dimmers disconnected. dont forget to tie the wires through

edit: didnt know you fixed it but using a megger is still a good idea for troubleshooting tripping breakers

 

[templdl]

Sounds like the breaker is tripping on thermal. Can it be reset right away after it trips? If not it almost with all certainty tripped on thermal.
If the load on the circuit hasn't changed I would target the breaker itself.
Is the breaker warm to the touch?, How about the load side wire?
If there is a loose connection on the load side wire it is closest to the thermal element in the breaker. The heating will be conducted to the thermal element and will do what I call "derate the breaker" which essentially means that the breaker will not be able to carry its rated current before it trips.
I would also remove the breaker and check the line side stabs and the bus it makes contact with to assure that there is no heating there. Heating in this area is less likely to derate the breaker though.
How much is your service Call? How much is a replacement breaker? Simply replacing an inexpensive breaker may solve the problem or eliminate a possible cause.
I have an infrared sensing attachment 80t-IR for my Fluke which has been very helpful when trouble shooting.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Sounds like the breaker is tripping on thermal. Can it be reset right away after it trips? If not it almost with all certainty tripped on thermal.

He found the problem

Went back to the house today and I found the problem.
Turns out in the back yard there is a shop and well the wire feeding the shop seems to be the culprit. The shop is connected to one of the receptacles in the master bedroom. Disconnected the wire from the rest of circuit and problem fix. Home owner was happy that the problem was fixed, but did not want the wire repaired that went to the shop.

 

[Ebow]

Wonder if he has an irrigation system? Had a similar problem a while back, power tripped three times a week between 4 a.m. and 5 a.m. baffled the devil out of me until I realized the problem when I went out there at 7 a.m. just as the system was shutting down. The HO admitted he had nicked the wire while planting some bushes about the same time the problem started.

Glad you found the culprit, bet the HO will 'fix' the problem himself.

Gene
_________________________________
Remember - Speed Kills and its not always you.

 

[Jraef]

Typical HO, I hope you charged him double.

Forget charging him double. When I would come across a situation like that, I would make up a quick note on the invoice saying something like "Problem found to be defective wring, homeowner specifically refused to allow me to repair it." and make him sign it, saying "It's for my liability protection. I'm making sure you know that it is dangerous and could burn your house down, but you did not want me to correct the problem." 9 times out of 10 that would make them re-think their decision and have me take care of it, especially if you do that in front of the wife.

 

[wptski]

Forget charging him double. When I would come across a situation like that, I would make up a quick note on the invoice saying something like "Problem found to be defective wring, homeowner specifically refused to allow me to repair it." and make him sign it, saying "It's for my liability protection. I'm making sure you know that it is dangerous and could burn your house down, but you did not want me to correct the problem." 9 times out of 10 that would make them re-think their decision and have me take care of it, especially if you do that in front of the wife.

That's a good idea! Threaten the HO with a possible house fire. What a way to get more business. I'd report you to the BBB!

 

[Cow]

"Problem found to be defective wring, homeowner specifically refused to allow me to repair it." and make him sign it, saying "It's for my liability protection. I'm making sure you know that it is dangerous and could burn your house down, but you did not want me to correct the problem."

Disconnected the wire from the rest of circuit and problem fix.

Jraef, how will disconnecting the faulty part of the circuit cause a house fire?

 

[steelersman]

invest in a megger and megger the circuit with all loads.lightbulbs, electronic devices including smoke detectors, gfci's and dimmers disconnected. dont forget to tie the wires through

edit: didnt know you fixed it but using a megger is still a good idea for troubleshooting tripping breakers

how did you not see that he found the problem a couple of posts before yours?

 

[Jraef]

Jraef, how will disconnecting the faulty part of the circuit cause a house fire?

Not sure how you got there, I think you read more into what I said. Anyway, not worth worrying about. I just meant that if a homeowner got cheap after I had done the work to find his problem and didn't want to pay me to finish the job, I used to make sure they understood the gravity of their decision. Look at what he said: "Home owner was happy that the problem was fixed, but did not want the wire repaired that went to the shop." It was an extension cord for crying out loud! All he (the OP) did was unplug it. What's going to stop the idiot homeowner from plugging it back in as soon as the electrician leaves? He had apparently proposed that he do the job the right way, a.k.a. the SAFE way, but the homeowner refused.

That's a good idea! Threaten the HO with a possible house fire. What a way to get more business. I'd report you to the BBB!

Once again, looks like someone jumped to a conclusion. I don't see where I was suggesting "threatening" anyone. Might it make them not want to hire me again? Sure, but the people who do that are not someone I wanted as customers anyway. They were a colossal waste of time.

But please, let's not waste a bunch of bandwidth on this, I'll shut up I guess...

 

[steelersman]

Not sure how you got there, I think you read more into what I said. Anyway, not worth worrying about. I just meant that if a homeowner got cheap after I had done the work to find his problem and didn't want to pay me to finish the job, I used to make sure they understood the gravity of their decision.



Once again, looks like someone jumped to a conclusion. I don't see where I was suggesting "threatening" anyone. Might it make them not want to hire me again? Sure, but the people who do that are not someone I wanted as customers anyway. They were a colossal waste of time.

well said Jraef

 

[Cow]

It was an extension cord for crying out loud! All he (the OP) did was unplug it. What's going to stop the idiot homeowner from plugging it back in as soon as the electrician leaves? He had apparently proposed that he do the job the right way, a.k.a. the SAFE way, but the homeowner refused.

Jraef, I agree with you in letting the homeowner know the possible consequences of his actions.

But, what I was getting at was the circuit is disconnected with no potential for future fires. I see no mention of an extension cord? I'd almost bet money it was direct buried Romex stabbed into the closest receptecle box in the house.

In any case, he solved the problem.

 

[wptski]

Once again, looks like someone jumped to a conclusion. I don't see where I was suggesting "threatening" anyone. Might it make them not want to hire me again? Sure, but the people who do that are not someone I wanted as customers anyway. They were a colossal waste of time.

But please, let's not waste a bunch of bandwidth on this, I'll shut up I guess...

You'd ought to go back and read your own post. You suggested, especially if you do that in front of the wife.