Twist lock

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the blur

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My idea :)
I'd like to see twist lock used on all major appliances. Like the refrigerator, the dryer, the washer. Anywhere a single receptacle is used now.
 
infinity

infinity

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Staff member
Location
New Jersey
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I would like to see the option for a sump pump to eliminate the GFCI receptacle protection. :thumbsup:
 
H

hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
the blur said:
My idea :)
I'd like to see twist lock used on all major appliances. Like the refrigerator, the dryer, the washer. Anywhere a single receptacle is used now.
Click to expand...

As of 2008 code change to 210.8, not too sure where a single receptacle will be used any more:?

Are you like thinking in place of a GFCI??? not allowed any more

and a GFCI was never was required for a refrigerator in a kitchen the receptacle behind a refrigerator does not serve the counter tops.

and there is no GFCI requirment for a washer or dryer if there is no wash tub within 6' of the receptacle.
 
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infinity

infinity

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Location
New Jersey
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Journeyman Electrician
I know that we love to debate about GFCI's and sump pumps. :cool:

Fact is that a GFCI receptacle is not required to protect the pump, it's required to protect the person who may unplug the pump and use a portable tool without GFCI protection. Many household appliances do not require GFCI protection, refrigerators, clothes dryers, washing machines, etc. and one can argue that those big metal machines would offer a much great personal shock potential then a pump enclosed in a pit. A sump pump installed in a finished space wouldn't require GFCI protection either. The idea of a $15 device protecting a $100,000 basement is unsettling to many, me included. :happyyes:
 
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jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
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Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
I don't recall a situation where I thought a twistlock would help any of these things. And, as someone mentioned, I've never seen a right angle twistlock.

This would just increase expenses in an already tight market & drive more people to do it themselves or hire the leaf raker to do it for $50 instead of paying our higher price.
 
iwire

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
infinity said:
I know that we love to debate about GFCI's and sump pumps. :cool:
Click to expand...

:lol:

Fact is that a GFCI receptacle is not required to protect the pump, it's required to protect the person who may unplug the pump and use a portable tool without GFCI protection.
Click to expand...

I agree.

Many household appliances do not require GFCI protection, refrigerators, clothes dryers, washing machines, etc. and one can argue that those big metal machines would offer a much great personal shock potential then a pump enclosed in a pit.
Click to expand...

All of those machines do require GFCI protection if located where the sump pump is.

I know you know that, but I feel it is the location that is more important than the equipment being served.



A sump pump installed in a finished space wouldn't require GFCI protection either.
Click to expand...

Which brings us back to location being the determining factor. I am much less likely to be grounded standing or a wood carpeted floor than a basement slab.

The idea of a $15 device protecting a $100,000 basement is unsettling to many, me included. :happyyes:
Click to expand...

The idea of a $100,000 basement relying on a single circuit seems like a poor design.

Utility failure, pump failure, switch failure, motor failure. If someone has a $100K basement that relies on a sump pump some sort of alarm seems prudent.
 
Joethemechanic

Joethemechanic

Senior Member
Location
Hazleton Pa
Occupation
Electro-Mechanical Technician. Industrial machinery
iwire said:
The idea of a $100,000 basement relying on a single circuit seems like a poor design.

Utility failure, pump failure, switch failure, motor failure. If someone has a $100K basement that relies on a sump pump some sort of alarm seems prudent.
Click to expand...

If I had a 100,000 basement, I think I'd have 2 pumps in that pit on a MWBC with a 1900 box containing 2 of those $15 ground faults to plug the pumps into.

If you use pumps that are hard wired in, do they require a gfci breaker?
 
Joethemechanic

Joethemechanic

Senior Member
Location
Hazleton Pa
Occupation
Electro-Mechanical Technician. Industrial machinery
iwire said:
No, but the pumps have to be designed for it, cutting the cord caps of is not an acceptable method. :cool:
Click to expand...


What if I installed a twist lock 120 volt receptical on the wall and a twist lock on the pump. Would a twist lock in that location have to be GFCI protected?
 
Joethemechanic

Joethemechanic

Senior Member
Location
Hazleton Pa
Occupation
Electro-Mechanical Technician. Industrial machinery
OK, here is my proposed NEC change. Only straight blade devices in basements shall be required to have GFCI protection. Exempt twist locks. It's not like John and Jane homeowner are going to have an adapter laying around to plug something else into it. Most of them wouldn't even be able to figure out how to unplug a twist lock, and if they did, they would probably figure it was 220 0r even 221 and be afraid of it :)
 
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