Twisted Conductors

[1793]

What pitfall if any would I have it I were twist three # 12 THWN together to make a "Triplex", Hot Neutral and Ground?

I would like to run one circuit out to a detached garage for a fixture to light the driveway.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Norb

Edited for Subject spelling correction.

[ September 10, 2005, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: 1793 ]

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Twisted Conductors

Take a look at 225.6.
Don

 

[1793]

Re: Twisted Conductors

The garage is 20 feet from the house. I don't think 225.6(A)(1) applies. So are seeing that 225.6(A)(2) comes into play?

Norb

 

[iwire]

Re: Twisted Conductors

Norb it is 225.6(A)(1) that applies.

225.6 Conductor Size and Support.

(A) Overhead Spans. Open individual conductors shall not be smaller than the following:

(1)For 600 volts, nominal, or less, 10 AWG copper or 8 AWG aluminum for spans up to 15 m (50 ft) in length and 8 AWG copper or 6 AWG aluminum for a longer span, unless supported by a messenger wire

That section applies to all spans less than 50'

 

[1793]

Re: Twisted Conductors

Bob:

My bad I read that line as OVER 50'. I was wrong please accept my apology. I can use #10, my first choice. My initial question was primarily dealing with potential problem(S) twisting the three conductors together?

Again I read the section wrong.

Norb

 

[iwire]

Re: Twisted Conductors

Norb no apology needed at all.

I am not familiar with running overhead conductors like you describe. I do not think you can twist your triplex out of THWN but I really do not know.

If I was running this circuit overhead I would buy triplex with a messenger or run my own messenger and attach UF cable to it.

 

[pierre]

Re: Twisted Conductors

Don't forget 310.8(D)


Example from Encore Wire, THWN: Take a look at which ones are SUNLIGHT resistant.

Solid conductors, uncoated copper, per
ASTM B3.
Stranded conductors uncoated copper per
ASTM B3, ASTM B787and ASTM B8.
Conductors Insulation:

Color-coded, Polyvinyl chloride (PVC), heatand
Moisture-resistant, flame-retardant
compound per UL-83 and UL-1063.
Jacket:

A tough, polyamide, outer-nylon covering
per UL-83 and UL-1063.
Features:

Slick, outer-nylon jacket for easy pulling.
VW-1 rated 14 AWG - 1 AWG, 1/0
AWG and larger is rated for CT use. 6
AWG and larger is rated for Sunlight
Resistance in all colors. All sizes are rated
?Gasoline and Oil Resistant II.?
Print Legend:

Conductor Sizes 14 AWG through 10 AWG Solid:
E123774 (SIZE) AWG TYPE THHN OR
THWN-2 GASOLINE AND OIL RESISTANT
II VW-1 600V (UL) OR AWM OR C-(UL)
TYPE T90 NYLON OR TWN 75 FT1

Conductor Sizes 14 AWG through 1 AWG Stranded:
E156879 (SIZE) AWG TYPE MTW OR
THHN OR THWN-2 GASOLINE AND OIL
RESISTANT II VW-1 600V (UL) OR AWM
OR C-(UL) TYPE T90 NYLON OR TWN 75
FT1 DATE/TIME/OPER

Conductor Sizes 1/0 AWG - 500 KCMIL Stranded:
E156879 (SIZE) AWG OR KCMIL TYPE
MTW OR THHN OR THWN-2 GASOLINE
AND OIL RESISTANT II SUNLIGHT
RESISTANT FOR CT USE 600V (UL) OR
C-(UL) TYPE T90 NYLON OR TWN 75 FT1
DATE/TIME/OPER

Conductor Sizes 500 KCMIL - 1000 KCMIL Stranded:
E156879 (SIZE) KCMIL TYPE MTW OR
THHN OR THWN-2 GASOLINE AND OIL
RESISTANT II SUNLIGHT RESISTANT FOR
CT USE 600V (UL)
DATE/TIME/OPER

 

[pierre]

Re: Twisted Conductors

Bob

Type UF
340.12 Uses not permitted.

(11) As overhead cable, except where installed as
messenger-supported wiring in accordance with Article 396.

Art 396 permits the use of UF Cable with a messenger as per 396.10(A).


How much UF Cable do we see overhead without a messenger?

 

[1793]

Re: Twisted Conductors

I like the idea of the UF supported by the messenger-wire. I have not done this type of installation before. Are there any illustrations showing how to attach conductors, UF, to messenger-wire?

Any help is always greatly appreciated.

Norb

 

[tshea]

Re: Twisted Conductors

I have used black ty-wraps spaced about 12"-18" apart on a 3/16" steel cable messenger line. The cable is fastened at both ends to the buildings. The UF is formed into a drip loop at each end then ran into a hole in the garage, to be terminated in a 4 sqaure box (about 6" from the hole). Then a disconnect switch is installed close by where accessible.

I have also run the UF into a weatherhead and down some conduit, into a basement, then to the breaker box.

Any other ways??

 

[james wuebker]

Re: Twisted Conductors

I think iwire was correct in staying to just buy triplex wire. It would be easier,safer and faster.
Bye now,
Jim

 

[1793]

Re: Twisted Conductors

The one supply house I visited said the smallest Triplex was # 6. I feel this is an overkill for a 15amp circuit used for lighting on the garage.

Thanks to all who have replied. The other options posted is just one of the reasons I like this group.

Norb