twisted ground wires vs. wirenut

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andymidplains

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Twisting ground wires without a wirenut in an electrical box for, say, a receptacle is not to code in Wisconsin. I am told that it is OK in California, but I find that unlikely since most of the California code is NEC. Can someone enlighten me.
 
andymidplains said:
Twisting ground wires without a wirenut in an electrical box for, say, a receptacle is not to code in Wisconsin. I am told that it is OK in California, but I find that unlikely since most of the California code is NEC. Can someone enlighten me.
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Conductors must be terminated in an approved fashion. Wirenuts or stakons are generally the way one would terminate. I don't believe twisting grounds without one of these devices or other alternatives is acceptable anywhere. It may pass inspection but it is not NEC compliant.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
It may pass inspection but it is not NEC compliant.
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Agreed, although I've seen some bare EGC's twisted so tightly for 3-4" that a wirenut probably isn't needed anyway.:rolleyes:
 
A few years ago, we were allowed to twist the grounds in switch boxes tight, and cut them off with no nut or buchanan. The chief inspector was in his 70's though. Kinda old school. He would honk and let you meet him at his truck to grab the card.
 
andymidplains said:
Twisting ground wires without a wirenut in an electrical box for, say, a receptacle is not to code in Wisconsin. I am told that it is OK in California, but I find that unlikely since most of the California code is NEC. Can someone enlighten me.
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Not in my wildest imagination would I consider this type of connection a thorough connection. See 110.14; 110.3(B) and 110.8 for a start. :smile:
 
I HATE pulling out a device and seeing 2" of twisted ground. I see it as being second rate sloppy work. I like to see nice straight bare wire with a coper crimp on the end, or wirenut. This of course is just me I am not saying thats the way it should be done. I ust feel some guys put more time into making a tight braid than they do making up their terminations to the device, or leaving the proper amount of wire in the box.
 
andymidplains said:
I am told that it is OK in California, but I find that unlikely since most of the California code is NEC. Can someone enlighten me.
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It's not OK in California.
 
walkerj said:
A few years ago, we were allowed to twist the grounds in switch boxes tight, and cut them off with no nut or buchanan. The chief inspector was in his 70's though. Kinda old school..
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I saw a lot of this 30 years ago when I started the trade. It is old school. I think when an egc was first installed in romex, but not to devices.
 
rcarroll said:
I saw a lot of this 30 years ago when I started the trade. It is old school. I think when an egc was first installed in romex, but not to devices.
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I found EGCs without wirenuts in the addition to my house, which was done within the last ten years (prior to me owning it). Devices are connected though... I think the guy must have been old though, can't find him in the phone book at all.
 
tallguy said:
I found EGCs without wirenuts in the addition to my house, which was done within the last ten years (prior to me owning it). Devices are connected though... I think the guy must have been old though, can't find him in the phone book at all.
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Yep...and chances are he never pulled a permit in the first place for the addition.
 
My brother went to electrical trade school about 1968-1970 and they where being taught to back wrap the grounding conductor around the NM and use the metal NM connector to close down on the EGC. I used to see it in old Boston homes when we would turn them into condos during the 80's.
 
iwire said:
My brother went to electrical trade school about 1968-1970 and they where being taught to back wrap the grounding conductor around the NM and use the metal NM connector to close down on the EGC. I used to see it in old Boston homes when we would turn them into condos during the 80's.
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I see that often in houses of that era.
 
Please Tell me it ain't so!

Please Tell me it ain't so!

I just had a bizarre conversation with our city building official. I noticed in our brand spankin new freshly built (4 month old) house that the ground wires in all outlet, switch and other boxes are LOOSELY twisted together with 6 or 7 turns, no wire nut or any other form of mechanical connection, with the longest wire connected to the device. When I asked our local building official how this managed to pass inspection, he told me we are under the 2003 international residential electrical code (wrong, Texas adopted the 2005 NEC), and that the code doesn't specify the type of connection or its reliability. If there is end to end continuity in the ground path at the time of inspection it will pass and that is the extent of the city's interest. I'm scared. Anyhow, I am about to start digging through the NEC for appropriate citations but thought I would ask if anybody knows of any conceivable way this is allowable under the NEC. Thanks
 
geostein said:
Anyhow, I am about to start digging through the NEC for appropriate citations but thought I would ask if anybody knows of any conceivable way this is allowable under the NEC. Thanks
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Read through 110.14 -- I don't see a prohibition against what you've described, at least for an uninsulated EGC. Note that 110.14(B) requires covering "with an insulation equivalent to that of the conductors". No insulation, no need to cover.

Not saying I would take advantage of this particular loophole, but it's there.
 
tallguy said:
Read through 110.14 -- I don't see a prohibition against what you've described, at least for an uninsulated EGC. Note that 110.14(B) requires covering "with an insulation equivalent to that of the conductors". No insulation, no need to cover.

Not saying I would take advantage of this particular loophole, but it's there.
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So, by extension, you could twist and tape the hots or neutrals? :-?
 
Mike03a3 said:
So, by extension, you could twist and tape the hots or neutrals? :-?
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Sure... why not? :smile:

Ya got me... I skipped over the first sentence "Conductors shall be spliced or joined with splicing devices identified for the use or brazing, [etc]..."

I guess that's the best answer for geostein. Not sure that it does him any good though as your not likely to get very far with trying to get the GC to correct it if the Building Dept isn't behind you. Invest in a whole bunch of greenies, or cut those long one's short and pigtail. I'd do the latter.
 
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