two electricians on a job

[hockeyoligist2]

I was replying to the types of work in your post here:



Taking amp readings has to be done energized but these examples you gave wouldnt be a safety hazard if you followed NFPA 70E/OSHA rules, including LOTO. Having a co-worker "flip on a switch" means you were working on something with the power off and not locked out.

The flipping of a switch occurred while I was checking voltage on a starter. He flipped a remote switch that pulled in the starter. Scared me half to death.

 

[LittleD]

I work in substations for a utility company and we always did 2 man (person:wink switching until recently. Personally, I think its alot safer with two. Especially when working at night and opening / closing disconnect blades.

 

[Rockyd]

Little D,

Are you subject to two man teams for 480 and above, or is that just for wireman? I know the rules are a lot different for the lineman, vs the wireman, curious about an "inbetween zone".

 

[LittleD]

Last night I was called in to switch 345kv alone. They did try to get a 2nd man in but no one answered so I switched alone. Done 115, 25 & 4kv alone all the time.

 

[zog]

I do switching alone all the time, but I have a wireless remote switch operator that I always bring with me, stick it on, walk outside the sub and hit the remote.

Best thing ever from a safety standpoint.

 

[electricalperson]

i hate it when 2 licensed electricians are on a job together. one guy always has a better way of doing something than the other guy. i usually have a helper with me always. i teach them how to work safetly and when something dangerous has to be done (pulling meters, resetting circuit breakers, turning power on for the first time etc) i have them stand next to me and tell them exactly what to do if something goes wrong. they stand back incase there is an arc flash.

 

[frankgi]

There are 3 types of electricians, safe, lucky, and dead.

I like that. Lets all stay safe.

 

[realolman]

I know this post will not be popular with many of you, but please try to refrain from attacking me personally. It's what I believe. I have been compelled to respond to many other threads about it but have not.

I think "safety" is used as a blanket term that is certainly valid and important, but is also being used to de-skill the trade in order to be able to use less qualified people, create revenue, and mollify business types who wouldn't know true safety from a can of roofing nails.

I think that much of this is OK so long as it involves making the worker dress up in "Beekeeper suits" , fill out forms, and telling him how do his job from an office somewhere. But, when it comes to having two people on the job, or anything that involves any significant money,especially to the worker, "safety" will be shown to be just an empty word.


20 year old salesmen come around and show horror films, and sell stuff to unknowlegeable safety directors, to be used by the guy who knows more about it than the salesmen and the safety director combined.

If this NFPA 70 E stuff is truly safety driven, why is there not a requirement for two people to go on a job?


I also think as time goes by, and it sinks into the bean counters, the "no hot work" business will fall by the wayside. The moon suits will remain, because no one cares how uncomfortable or demeaned the worker is, someone will be able to make money from them, and since we have the "safety" of the moon suits, there is no need to pay the guy in them any particularly high wages.

 

[zog]

Ooohhh, my chest, cant breathe, heeellllllp.

 

[quogueelectric]

One of the best stories I ever heard was from a utility guy from pseg breaking a 24kv load in a storm hand cranking because the automatic part failed. Man this guy was very descriptive thought the arc would never break . Scared the crap out of him and made for a great story.

 

[wawireguy]

I'm with hockey on this one. Your co-workers are much more dangerous than electricity. One is a known hazard, quantifiable and avoidable. The other is human, subject to error, drugs, alchohol, their ego, ignorance and the list goes on..

I'm not disagreeing with OSHA/NFPA requirements and agree that having a observer there to spot you is safer but most of the time your spotter is off doing other stuff that can get you shocked.

 

[Natfuelbilll]

For safety reasons, I work my employees in pairs. We do maintenance work for a major university. Every job we appoach is "hot" on arrival. My boss is forcing me to stop this practice and work the electricians alone. I feel it's worth the little extra money spent to work in pairs. What I need is support here. Does anyone know of any literature that will back me up? HELP! Seems so wrong to me ...

You will find some ammunition for your case in NFPA 70E 130 (E) Alerting Techniques. (3) Attendants.

"If signs and barricades do not provide sufficient warning and protection from electrical hazards, and attendant shall be stationed to warn and protect employees. The primary duty and responsibility of an attendant providing manual signalling and alerting shall be to keep unqualified employees outside a work area where unqualified employee might be exposed to electrical hazards. An attendant shall remain in the area as long as there is a potential for employees to be exposed to the electrical hazards."

 

[daleuger]

I know this post will not be popular with many of you, but please try to refrain from attacking me personally. It's what I believe. I have been compelled to respond to many other threads about it but have not.

I think "safety" is used as a blanket term that is certainly valid and important, but is also being used to de-skill the trade in order to be able to use less qualified people, create revenue, and mollify business types who wouldn't know true safety from a can of roofing nails.

I think that much of this is OK so long as it involves making the worker dress up in "Beekeeper suits" , fill out forms, and telling him how do his job from an office somewhere. But, when it comes to having two people on the job, or anything that involves any significant money,especially to the worker, "safety" will be shown to be just an empty word.


20 year old salesmen come around and show horror films, and sell stuff to unknowlegeable safety directors, to be used by the guy who knows more about it than the salesmen and the safety director combined.

If this NFPA 70 E stuff is truly safety driven, why is there not a requirement for two people to go on a job?


I also think as time goes by, and it sinks into the bean counters, the "no hot work" business will fall by the wayside. The moon suits will remain, because no one cares how uncomfortable or demeaned the worker is, someone will be able to make money from them, and since we have the "safety" of the moon suits, there is no need to pay the guy in them any particularly high wages.

You're preaching to the choir, brother.

 

[bobsherwood]

Thanks Natfuelbill. I need all the support I can get. This is a battle I don't want to lose!

 

[hockeyoligist2]

I'm with hockey on this one. Your co-workers are much more dangerous than electricity. One is a known hazard, quantifiable and avoidable. The other is human, subject to error, drugs, alchohol, their ego, ignorance and the list goes on..

I'm not disagreeing with OSHA/NFPA requirements and agree that having a observer there to spot you is safer but most of the time your spotter is off doing other stuff that can get you shocked.

Thanks for your support! We are all electricians where I work, no "apprentices or spotters". One guy I work with falls back and becomes a "helper" when it is a troubleshooting thing. I fall back and become a "helper" when we are running pipe! Then I have several others that want to be #1 troubleshooter. They are prone to "Yinging while I'm Yanging" !!!