Two pole GFCI on inground pool pump

[highendtron]

I installed a two-pole GFCI on a 220v 1phase inground pump. The GFCI keeps tripping. I ran a romex 12/2 wg feed and used the bare conductor on the ground screw inside the motor hub. The other end of the bare 12/2 landed on the nuetral screw of the GFCI. I think the GFCI may be picking up enough leakeage current on the bare wire that it trips. I have thought about pulling in a 12/3 wg and using the insulated white wire like I'm trying to use the 12/2 wg bare wire. Or I could heat shrink the exposed part of the bare wire...Any constructive thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[infinity]

Wiring method issues aside, remove the bare conductor from the neutral screw at the 2 pole CB and see if the problem is resolved.

 

[LarryFine]

The other end of the bare 12/2 landed on the nuetral screw of the GFCI.

That is 100% wrong. The bare wire should land where all of the other ones do.

If your load was 120/240v and had a neutral conductor, the white would land on the GFCI neutral terminal.

In any case, the GFCI's white pigtail should land on the panel's neutral bus.

 

[highendtron]

should I have pulled a 12/3 wg? landing the white wire on the GFCI nuetral and the bare wire on the ground bus in the panel and then landed the other end of the bare wire on the ground screw in the motor hub...then where does the other end of the white wire land...there are only three terminations in the motor hub L1, L2, and the ground screw.

 

[ozark01]

Just curious as to why you put the pool pump on a GFCI breaker. Is it cord connected?

 

[LarryFine]

should I have pulled a 12/3 wg?

Not unless the load requires a neutral. To wit:

...then where does the other end of the white wire land...there are only three terminations in the motor hub L1, L2, and the ground screw.

There's your answer: No neutral terminal, no neutral needed.

Just leave the GFCI load neutral terminal unconnected.

 

[480sparky]

The bare ground should not go to the breaker. If there's no neutral, just land the breaker's white wire on the neutral bar, and connect the NM's bare ground to where the ground(s) is/are.

 

[augie47]

A neutral should be installed to the panel with the GFCI and the white "pigtail" connected to the neutral for proper GFCI operation. However, since there is no neutral load, there would be no neutral connection to the load side of the GFCI breaker.
All equipment grounding should be connected with no neutral-grounding connection.

(Rob mentioned in his post "ignoring the wiring method", but at some point you should address that 12/2 WG Romex will not meet 680.21 (A)(1) )

 

[highendtron]

I ran the romex on the inside of the garage. I ran pvc on the outside of the garage and connected the pump with liquidtight. I was really concerned with no nuetral on a 2p GFCI and wondering if it undermined the UL intent or listing or presented a safety hazard. I left the wires off the breaker when I left the job because I knew I could get a response on this forum...and I appreciate it.

 

[ozark01]

Since it is wired directly, the pump does not need to be on a GFCI breaker. You can install a regular breaker and solve your problem plus get the money back for the GFCI breaker.

 

[augie47]

Since it is wired directly, the pump does not need to be on a GFCI breaker. You can install a regular breaker and solve your problem plus get the money back for the GFCI breaker.

I believe 680.22 in the '08 Code now requires GFCI on pump motors, cord & plug AND direct wired.

 

[hurk27]

You have a couple problems, The 12/2 must end at the point of exiting the building, NM or UF wiring methods are not allowed outside of a structure, you must change over to THWN conductors with an insulated grounding conductor, grounding conductors are not allowed to be bare and must be copper. See 680.21(A)(4)

since your load is 240 volts only, you only need two hots and an EGC, two pole GFCI breakers now come for the most part with a neutral terminal, but if you don't need it, you don't have to use it, as others have said, the white pigtail has to be connected to the neutral bar for the electronics to work in the breaker, but there is no need to have a load connected to the neutral terminal on the breaker. the EGC can only go to the ground bar or neutral bar if this is a service panel, the other end just terminates to the pump ground (EGC) they way you had it, caused current to flow on the neutral terminal of the breaker and the breaker detected it as a ground fault and tripped the breaker.

The NEC does not require a GFCI breaker for a hard wired pump, but I know in most areas, it makes the inspector and the home owner happy.

Sounds like you need to do some reading of article 680, and then if there is something you don't understand , post a question and we can help.

680 can be very confusing if you try to read ahead to fast, and miss key words.

 

[Johnmcca]

Romex outdoors in a wet location?

 

[1793]

I ran the romex on the inside of the garage. I ran pvc on the outside of the garage and ... I knew I could get a response on this forum...and I appreciate it.

Is this Romex or UF? If romex there is a violation, Article 334.12(B)(4), since outdoor conduits are considered wet/damp location.

Man I'm slower than usual tonight.

 

[hurk27]

I believe 680.22 in the '08 Code now requires GFCI on pump motors, cord & plug AND direct wired.

You are correct,

680.22(B) clearly states "outlets supplying pool pump motors from branch circuits with short-circuit and ground fault protection rated 15 or 20 amperes, 125 volt or 240 volt, single phase, whether by receptacle or direct connection, shall be provided with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

Is this Romex or UF? If romex there is a violation, Article 334.12(B)(4), since outdoor conduits are considered wet/damp location.

Man I'm slower than usual tonight.

It does not matter, UF or romex outside is a violation of 680.21(A)(1) the grounding conductor has to be insulated, if outside it has to follow 680.21(A)(1)

Inside you can use 680.21(A)(4) and just use romex.

 

[1793]

Is this Romex or UF? If romex there is a violation, Article 334.12(B)(4), since outdoor conduits are considered wet/damp location.

Man I'm slower than usual tonight.

It does not matter, UF or romex outside is a violation of 680.21(A)(1) the grounding conductor has to be insulated, if outside it has to follow 680.21(A)(1)

Inside you can use 680.21(A)(4) and just use romex.

I was making a statement only about the use of Romex outside.

 

[ozark01]

I believe 680.22 in the '08 Code now requires GFCI on pump motors, cord & plug AND direct wired.

Just downloaded a copy of the 2008 code and saw that you are correct. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I wire pools for a pool company and have not wire one this year due to no sales. This would have been a problem if I had!


(B) GFCI Protection. Outlets supplying pool pump motors
from branch circuits with short-circuit and ground-fault
protection rated 15 or 20 amperes, 125 volt or 240 volt,
single phase, whether by receptacle or direct connection,
shall be provided with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection
for personnel.

 

[highendtron]

I never said that I ran Romex on the outside of the garage...I did splice in a junction box...my only real mistake was the 12/2 wg Bare on the GFCI nuetral and while that is bad enough and I will correct it after reading Larry Fines' post. I have had a hell of a time finding a code refresher class in my area, haen't found one yet, but am still looking!. Thanks again...this forum is a good and valuable site!

 

[hurk27]

I never said that I ran Romex on the outside of the garage...I did splice in a junction box...my only real mistake was the 12/2 wg Bare on the GFCI nuetral and while that is bad enough and I will correct it after reading Larry Fines' post. I have had a hell of a time finding a code refresher class in my area, haen't found one yet, but am still looking!. Thanks again...this forum is a good and valuable site!

The reason we assumed that you did was because of this statement in you original post:

I ran a romex 12/2 wg feed and used the bare conductor on the ground screw inside the motor hub.

and with this:

I ran the romex on the inside of the garage. I ran pvc on the outside of the garage and connected the pump with liquidtight.

connecting it to the motor hub, would lead us to believe it was ran outside

Of course the motor could be "inside" LOL
But who would have known

 

[hurk27]

Were not trying to bust your chops or anything like that, we are here to just try to point you in the right direction, and you will find that the same requirement for reading and understanding the NEC, is the same "paying attention to the words" we use when we read post in here, not much gets by.