Type NM Cable in Detached Garage??

Status
Not open for further replies.
stickboy1375 said:
According to the NEC, a detatched garage is not a dwelling unit, therefore, NM is not allowed, 334.10 read #1 and the definition of a dwelling unit, then read #3... I know its a real shocker...

OK don't see why a detached garage is not allowed. 334.10(1) says dwelling units are permitted, but can't use that because a garage is not a dwelling. 334.10(3) says you can use it in other structures of type II, IV, or V construction. Wouldn't a stud built garage apply via this section? That is why others said you can use it, but it has to be covered by sheetrock or something else which gives a 15 minute fire rated finish rating.
 
suemarkp said:
OK don't see why a detached garage is not allowed. 334.10(1) says dwelling units are permitted, but can't use that because a garage is not a dwelling. 334.10(3) says you can use it in other structures of type II, IV, or V construction. Wouldn't a stud built garage apply via this section? That is why others said you can use it, but it has to be covered by sheetrock or something else which gives a 15 minute fire rated finish rating.


IMO, NM should be allowed anywhere with or without protection, but what do I know?
 
stickboy1375 said:
I would use tamper resistance receptacles if it makes you feel any better... ;)

When TR receptacles are fed from such a dangerous wiring method, it really doesn't make me feel any better. :roll:
 
peter d said:
When TR receptacles are fed from such a dangerous wiring method, it really doesn't make me feel any better. :roll:



I'm gonna buy a brand new roll of NM and put it in time capsule to show my kids the crazy stuff we used to use... ;)
 
stickboy1375 said:
I'm gonna buy a brand new roll of NM and put it in time capsule to show my kids the crazy stuff we used to use... ;)

Yeah, and when times get really tough you can dig it up and sell it for scrap. :D
 
stickboy1375 said:
I would use tamper resistance receptacles if it makes you feel any better... ;)

I think you hit on something here stickboy. TR recep. are required for all areas specified in 210.52. Art. 210.52(G) calls for TR receptacles in all attached and detached garages. They can't have their cake and eat it too. If they are basically calling a detached garage a part of the dwelling section then it stands to reason the detached garage should be allowed to be wired in NM without 15 min. fire rating.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I think you hit on something here stickboy. TR recep. are required for all areas specified in 210.52. Art. 210.52(G) calls for TR receptacles in all attached and detached garages. They can't have their cake and eat it too. If they are basically calling a detached garage a part of the dwelling section then it stands to reason the detached garage should be allowed to be wired in NM without 15 min. fire rating.

While there's no absolute mention of it, they're basically calling a detached garage (with power) a part of the dwelling unit at 406.11, 2008 NEC, by referring back to 210.52(G). This certainly needs language clarity. It's almost as though if it is detached and has power it's part of a 1 family dwelling, but if it's detached and has no power, then it's not. go figure....jeeze...:confused: :)
 
7-42 Log #109 NEC-P07 Final Action: Reject
(334.10)

Submitter: Jeffrey Hudecek, Owosso, MI

Recommendation: Add the reference to three floors above grade to the
beginning of the second sentence of 334.10(3) to read as follows:
“ In any building exceeding three floors above grade, cables shall be
concealed within walls, floors, or ceilings...”.
Also, add a new fine print note to call attention to the definition of the first
floor in 362.10 to read as follows:
“FPN: See 362.10 for definition of first floor of a building. ”


Substantiation: There are thousands of nondwelling buildings where
nonmetallic sheathed cable is an acceptable wiring method where it is not
concealed within 15-minute fire rated construction. There are thousands of
commercial and farm buildings where there are no concealed spaces for wiring,
and surface installed cable is perfectly acceptable. In agricultural buildings for
example, Type UF, which is installed using the rules in Article 334, is the
preferred wiring method. It certainly seems as though 334.10(3) is saying that
Type UF cable is not permitted to be installed in an agricultural building unless
concealed within a fire rated wall, ceiling or floor. concealing cables in
agricultural and some commercial buildings is not recommended because of
potential rodent damage, yet surface installed cable is preferred.

Panel Meeting Action: Reject


Panel Statement: The substantiation provides only a description of
installations where there are no concealed spaces and agriculture installations
where Type UF cable is preferred. No substantiation has been submitted to
address why the 15 minute finish rating for these and other commercial and
non-residential installations in buildings lower than three stories should not be
required.
Number Eligible to Vote: 14

Ballot Results: Affirmative: 14


7-45 Log #3087 NEC-P07 Final Action: Reject
(334.10(3))

Submitter: Joseph A. Hertel, Safety and Buildings

Recommendation: Substitute the following wording for 334.10 (intro)(3):
Other structures permitted to be of Types III, IV and V construction except as
prohibited in 334.12.

Substantiation: The language requiring that “cables shall be concealed within
walls, floors, or ceilings that provide a thermal barrier of material that has at
least a 15-minute finish rating” is not complied with and largely ignored in
practice. Compliance would require that all installations in detached garages
(Type V structures) where NM cables are installed, dairy and horse facilities
(Type V structures) where UF cable is used and many other stand alone
structures of Types III, IV or V construction would require gypsum wallboard
to provide the 15-minute finish rating.


Panel Meeting Action: Reject

Panel Statement: Violations of the NEC requirements are not reason for
changing requirements of the Code. The present text is inclusive of all “Other
Structures”.
The substantiation addresses only unfinished garages and
agriculture installations where Type UF cable is preferred. No substantiation
has been submitted to address why the 15- minute finish rating for these and
other commercial and non-residential installations should not be required. The
panel advises the submitter that these installations might be more appropriately
addressed under the Type UF Cable Article.

Number Eligible to Vote: 14

Ballot Results: Affirmative: 13 Negative: 1

Explanation of Negative:

DALY, J.: The Proposal should have been Accepted in Principle with the
following additional text added into the existing 334.10(3):
Add an Exception immediately following 334.10(3) to read: “Exception: A
thermal barrier of material that has at least a 15-minute finish rating shall not
be required when Type UF cable is installed as nonmetallic- sheathed cable in
animal housing facilities classified as storage occupancies.”
Add a Fine Print Note after FPN No. 2 to read: “FPN No. 3 to Exception:
Classification of animal housing facilities as storage occupancies is defined in
NFPA 1-2006, Uniform Fire Code, NFPA 101-2006, Life Safety Code, and
NFPA 5000-2006, Building Construction and Safety Code.”
Revise existing “FPN No. 1” to “FPN No. 1 to (3)” and “FPN No. 2” to “FPN
No. 2 to (3)”.
The three NFPA Codes classify any type of animal housing facility as a
storage occupancy, defined as an “occupancy used for the storage or sheltering
of goods, merchandise, products, vehicles, or animals.” A storage occupancy is
typically characterized by the presence of few people, usually only owners and
employees. If members of the public enter the building, the building can no
longer be considered simply a storage occupancy. Additional information is
contained in the NFPA Journal, November/December 2004 issue, page 22.
At its July 2004 meeting, the NFPA Standards Council approved an expansion
of NFPA 150, Racetrack Stables, to include life and fire safety requirements for
both humans and animals in all types of animal housing facilities and it
changed the name of the committee to the Technical Committee on Animal
Housing Facilities.

Between these two ROPs IMO it is clear the CMP intends a detached garage to have a 15 minute finish if you want to use NM.

The TR requirements have absolutely no bearing on this finish rule. They can in fact have their cake and eat it too.
 
iwire said:
Between these two ROPs IMO it is clear the CMP intends a detached garage to have a 15 minute finish if you want to use NM.

The TR requirements have absolutely no bearing on this finish rule. They can in fact have their cake and eat it too.

I was being facetious with this point bolded above. I do realize that TR has no bearing on the Type structure. One would think, however, that there would be some consistency in these rules. Obviously I live in a dream world. :grin:

Thanks for the ROP's
 
iwire said:
No problem, now do I get some cake. :cool:

You can have the cake but I am not sure you can eat it. :grin:

chocolate-cake-sl-366569-l.jpg
 
How about an exception modeled after to one in Ma.

334.10(3)

Exception No 1

For detached buildings that are accessory structures to dwelling occupancies , type NM,type NMC, and type NMS cables shall be permitted to be used without concealment
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top