Uf cable as service entrance

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Family man

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Oakes, North Dakota, USA
I'm finding myself guilty of a installation that is not quite code compliant and wondering what needs to be done to make it safe and hazard free to a livable extent. First off I without questioning at first used uf cable as service entrance from the utility to a detached garage. Then the lights came on, but now it is trenched buried and energized. Why is it not permitted? I believe it is thhn wire inside. The only thing I can think of is the outside sheathing might not be considered thick enough. I am willing to dig it up and do it again of course, but is it unsafe or is it worthy to ask for a waiver from the ahj in your opinion. Then the costumer supplied panel does not come out and say that it is suitable as a service disconnect, but everyone I talked to confirmed that it was before I agreed to use it. Not to mention that it is located over a work bench. Costumer had inside circuitry run to it and I justified this to be reason to leave it where it was at. One thing led to another, but Uf was a clincher. We live in an imperfect world but a clear conscious, a good night sleep, and food on the table is worth everything to me. Wondering what you guys would do if you were in my shoes at this moment. Thanks.


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Based on Table 310.15(B )(7) in the 2011 all acceptable cables are rated 75C or better and uf is rated 60C--- I believe that is the intent however using the 2014 code I don't why uf cannot be used assuming one doesn't use the equipment grounding conductor and uses a 4 wire cable in order to get the neutral to be larger.

The fact is that it is not compliant for some reason but I don't see an issue with it if it is sized appropriately
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Based on Table 310.15(B )(7) in the 2011 all acceptable cables are rated 75C or better and uf is rated 60C--- I believe that is the intent however using the 2014 code I don't why uf cannot be used assuming one doesn't use the equipment grounding conductor and uses a 4 wire cable in order to get the neutral to be larger.

The fact is that it is not compliant for some reason but I don't see an issue with it if it is sized appropriately
Click to expand...

I did use the 4 wire cable not using the ground wire so the neutral is the same size as the phase conductors. Sixes in this case.


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romex jockey said:
Service Entrance conductors are covered in art 338.

I'd consider some SE to a disco, UF after it...

~RJ~
Click to expand...

I did think of that but then you have a service on a post 20 feet or better from the garage. Not sure how that looks code wise until I do my homework.
Could be an option, but then grounding changes at panel in garage.
Trench is not excessively long so would probably be worth it at that point to dig the whole thing up and do it again.


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Family man said:
I did think of that but then you have a service on a post 20 feet or better from the garage. Not sure how that looks code wise until I do my homework.
Could be an option, but then grounding changes at panel in garage.
Trench is not excessively long so would probably be worth it at that point to dig the whole thing up and do it again.


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Click to expand...

Exactly what is this 'service on a post' Family man?

~RJ~
 
romex jockey said:
Exactly what is this 'service on a post' Family man?

~RJ~
Click to expand...

Just saying utility tub is remotely located on property, and the only way a disconnect help me at this point is if it was remotely located also by the tub. Not sure if this would be compliant without doing some checking.
To clarify application I have a utility feed coming underground into a side by side tub. On the left side is the meter socket and on the right side I have disconnect where connections are made, one feeding the house and then the cable I ran to feed the garage. Neutral and ground are bonded at the house so I am thinking I would need another disconnect on a post, some reason I equivelated that to be a service, actually as you stated it is only a service disconnect, there would just be two in close proximity.


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If the wire to the garage is connected to a service disconnect then your UF cable is not a service conductor but a feeder.
 
Family man said:
Even if bonding of neutral and ground takes place at panel in garage?


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Click to expand...

If there is a service disconnect ahead of the UF then you do not bond the neutral and equipment grounding conductor. They should be isolated and the grounding electrode conductor should be connected to the equipment grounding conductor not the neutral. The neutral must be isolated. You need the 4 wires
 
590e7b919b9abec5cff717406a298edd.jpg


This is a picture of utility tub. The neutral and ground are not bonded on wires supplying house.
So to my understanding I cannot bond my neutral here and that leaves me to bond at the garage


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Family man said:
Table 250.102(c)(1) says 2 and smaller need an eight and the egc is a 10


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Isn't the pedestal a structure that needs a GES anyway?

I am a little hazy about where a SSBJ is required. I thought it was required anywhere you have unprotected service conductors.
 
Uf cable as service entrance

petersonra said:
Isn't the pedestal a structure that needs a GES anyway?

I am a little hazy about where a SSBJ is required. I thought it was required anywhere you have unprotected service conductors.
Click to expand...

There is a ground rod at the pedestal. Not sure exactly who is connected to it. I believe it to be the utility because it is not connected on disconnect side.
I believe the supply side jumper to be in the form of the bonding screw we place At the service disconnect. Here it is a bit confusing to me also at this point because we have an nonfused disconnect line side of the first over current device. So in my understanding to use that I would run a number eight from the ground rod or pedestal metal to the neutral at the pedestal, but not sure if this is acceptable. Then put my number 10 egc there too.


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I believe if that is a utility trany then you would have service conductors run from there to the garage. Sorry I thought you had a separate disco
 
Is that a transfer switch of some sort?

is that the neutral bar across the bottom? it appears to be bolted to the frame.

are the wires at the top coming from the meter?
 
Uf cable as service entrance

petersonra said:
Is that a transfer switch of some sort?

is that the neutral bar across the bottom? it appears to be bolted to the frame.

are the wires at the top coming from the meter?
Click to expand...

Neutral is across the bottom, and yes the top wires coming in are from the meter.
Triplex is run to the house. And being there is no fourth wire for ground I am assuming that bonding takes place at house panel. I have not physically opened it, but can't see it any other way without egc.
It is a transfer switch.


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Family man said:
There is a ground rod at the pedestal. Not sure exactly who is connected to it.
Click to expand...

Dennis Alwon said:
I believe if that is a utility trany then you would have service conductors run from there to the garage. Sorry I thought you had a separate disco
Click to expand...


Is this pedestal part of the utility transformer or is it a non-fused disconnect (power pedestal)?

If this is the service I'm thinking that the house is wrong haveing the neutral and ground bond at the main panel.

Is this house a mobile home?

This set up is odd enough that I wouldn't feel funny asking a few questions of the AHJ. They should of had an inspection when they turned power on for the house but things don't seem right to me.
 
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