UL approved assembly?

[chris kennedy]

This is a pic of an existing generator. Scope of work has me changing the 300A breaker to a 600A.
Before I opened this it looked like a factory assembly. Notice the unistrut and polaris. This genny was
installed in the late 80's. Anyone seen an install like this before? And if you were the AHJ would you have
problem with this?
View attachment 653

 

[mdshunk]

The inspectors are going to be so confused by it, it will pass inspection. :wink:

 

[jim dungar]

Breakers muonted to unistrut would not be a problem.

I am not sure about the "Polaris" hanging in the air. I would want to evaluate the cable support.

However the use of a Square D MAG-GARD (instantaneous trip only) for branch circuit protection would not be acceptable.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I might have more problem with you changning a 300 amp breaker to a 600 amp breaker than with the way they're mounted.

 

[chris kennedy]

However the use of a Square D MAG-GARD (instantaneous trip only) for branch circuit protection would not be acceptable.

The Mag-Gard is 400A Fire pump. I'm changing the 300 on the left. First price I got today,$4000.00.

 

[megloff11x]

The wires look a little iffy. Usually if you touch it you own it.

Is the system sized for a 600A breaker?

Does your mod meet current code?

Matt

 

[chris kennedy]

The wires look a little iffy. Usually if you touch it you own it.

Is the system sized for a 600A breaker?

Does your mod meet current code?

Matt

It's a 200kw 120/208 gen. The iffy cables on line are welding cables. I've had 2 days to look at this now and I'm not happy. The breakers are installed through the uni-strut with long toggle bolts.

My new $4000.00 breaker is larger so I will have to add another strut. UL assembly, not even close.

 

[jim dungar]

The Mag-Gard is 400A Fire pump. I'm changing the 300 on the left. First price I got today,$4000.00.

The Square D Mag-Gard is for use as part of a listed combination of breaker and starter not as a "feeder" circuit short circuit protective device. It definitely is not service entrance equipment. Is your fire pump controller listed for use with this breaker? A better choice for disconnecting means might have been a molded case switch.

 

[chris kennedy]

The Square D Mag-Gard is for use as part of a listed combination of breaker and starter not as a "feeder" circuit short circuit protective device. It definitely is not service entrance equipment. Is your fire pump controller listed for use with this breaker? A better choice for disconnecting means might have been a molded case switch.

I agree this install is suspect. I have not seen the pump or controller.(long story)
The Mag-Gard would seem to be in compliance with 695.6(D).
This is not in my scope of work, But I do have issues with the fact that the EE didn't consider 695.3(B)(1). It is nowhere in the load calcs.

Side note: My fearless leader was able to secure the 600A breaker I need for a round of golf. Go figure.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

As I can see from this photo, the first response from me would be Whoa!!!
I need more info before I would even think of approving such an installation. Remember that would be my signature on that paper and it is not easy to sign off on this install as I can see from the photo.
I might even ask for an engineer's evaluation of this.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

With another peek at the photo, I do not see how the conductors that are terminated to the top of the circuit breaker are supported...maybe there is too much weight/pressure on the lugs of those breakers...

what happens to the toggle bolts during a fault condition and the magnetic forces work aroung that breaker??? We do not know, as this installation probably has never been tested for this type of installation application. How do we know if they will support the breaker during such an event???
Too many questions in my mind for this installation.

 

[chris kennedy]

what happens to the toggle bolts during a fault condition and the magnetic forces work aroung that breaker???

My installations don't create faults.(most of the time):smile:

Great question Pierre. What is the available fault current from the genny?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

My installations don't create faults.(most of the time):smile:

Great question Pierre. What is the available fault current from the genny?

That answers my question :grin:



I was thinking outloud. That is what I do when I come across an installation that I have not seen before. By my asking as many questions as I can think of, and listening to the installer, sometimes I get some really good answers...sometimes a look of deer in the headlights.

When I am really unsure, I reach out to people that I know know more than me. Ask Roger, I reach out to him for help, and others as well.

 

[chris kennedy]

With another peek at the photo, I do not see how the conductors that are terminated to the top of the circuit breaker are supported...maybe there is too much weight/pressure on the lugs of those breakers...

Thats welding cable on the top.
This project has an engineer although he never opened the generator.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Thats welding cable on the top.
This project has an engineer although he never opened the generator.

The welding cable may have been part of the original installation. It would still need some kind of support to take the stress off of the lugs.
I think that someone was there before you and they field altered this equipment. Are you getting an inspection for the work you are performing on this job? If so, call the inspector to see what he would say.

Calling the inspector may help you to pass an inspection, yet it may not be the correct installation. If you have any other pics it would be interesting to see them.
If you like, you could fly me down there, and I will make the inspection

 

[iwire]

The welding cable may have been part of the original installation. It would still need some kind of support to take the stress off of the lugs.

I would call that an opinion not a fact.

If you like, you could fly me down there, and I will make the inspection

I think he might be better off flying you to Hawaii for a few days of relaxation.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Bob
Unless I state that I think it is a fact, I offer opinions on this site, just like anyone else.

 

[chris kennedy]

If you have any other pics it would be interesting to see them.
If you like, you could fly me down there, and I will make the inspection

I have a wider view I will post this afternoon. I'm at work now.
I'll fly you down if you think you can take the heat!:smile:

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I have a wider view I will post this afternoon. I'm at work now.
I'll fly you down if you think you can take the heat!:smile:

Chris
Even though I am a 'Yankee" and it is very cold up here in the winter, I am sort of crazy, as I love the heat and summertime.:grin: and I love to fly :grin:


Now that I think of what you posted, maybe you mean a different kind of heat...

 

[iwire]

Bob
Unless I state that I think it is a fact, I offer opinions on this site, just like anyone else.

I hear you and the keys "IMO" are almost worn off my keyboards from my incessant use of them.

I guess I just have a hard time understanding how you could form such an opinion based on only what we have seen so far.

But of course that is JMO.