UL Listed romex connectors in recessed cans

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electricguy61

electricguy61

Senior Member
Location
Remotely running business in Bay Area, CA from Med
I just failed an inspection (I wasn't on-site, the general was there)

We used the romex connectors built into the recessed cans (and UL approved). Inspector says he can feel a rough metal edge on the hole, and so a bushing or connector must be used. This house has @ 50 cans, so you can imagine why I don't want to redo all of them.

I've called and left messages for the inspector, and his boss, to argue that if the fixture is UL approved (including the connectors), it's OK to use them as per the installation instructions (attached for your review)

http://www.junolightinggroup.com/Instruction Sheets/Juno/IC & TC P5142.pdf

Any thoughts, especially from you inspectors?
 
Greg Swartz

Greg Swartz

Senior Member
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Understand your point... Never had an issue with this before.
I'd want to wear them down too...

However, consider how many more inspections you will have with this inspector...

Food for thought.
Greg
 
O

ohm

Senior Member
Location
Birmingham, AL
roger3829 said:
What code section did you violate?

If you installed them as per the manufactures instructions....... What more can he expect from you?
Click to expand...

The hooker may be the little ditty about the local authority. I've seen some UL listed lighting fixtures that if mounted per instructions places the wiring connections about 1 1/2" out of the box. They're Home Depots premier fixtures! How in the world did they get listed?

The inspector may just be doing you a favor.
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
electricguy61 said:
Inspector noted 300.4 B (1), which is for cables going through metal framing members.

I think I'll win this one.:grin:
Click to expand...


I agree with you that the violation is bogus. We install things everyday with sharp edges. Did you ever feel the metal edges on some commercial panelboards? My only question is why he would even be inspecting the edge of a listed product, used according to it's instructions, in the first place.
 
H

haskindm

Senior Member
Location
Maryland
electricguy61 said:
IWe used the romex connectors built into the recessed cans (and UL approved). Inspector says he can feel a rough metal edge on the hole, and so a bushing or connector must be used. This house has @ 50 cans, so you can imagine why I don't want to redo all of them.

I've called and left messages for the inspector, and his boss, to argue that if the fixture is UL approved (including the connectors), it's OK to use them as per the installation instructions (attached for your review)

http://www.junolightinggroup.com/Instruction Sheets/Juno/IC & TC P5142.pdf

Any thoughts, especially from you inspectors?
Click to expand...

UL does NOT "approve" light fixtures or anything else. Approved means "acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction". If the inspector is (or acts on behalf of) the Authority having jurisdiction in your area - they have not approved your fixtures and you will need to take steps to make them "acceptable". You can fight it, but is it worth it? Find out what they would require for these to be acceptable.
 
electricguy61

electricguy61

Senior Member
Location
Remotely running business in Bay Area, CA from Med
haskindm said:
UL does NOT "approve" light fixtures or anything else. Approved means "acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction". If the inspector is (or acts on behalf of) the Authority having jurisdiction in your area - they have not approved your fixtures and you will need to take steps to make them "acceptable". You can fight it, but is it worth it? Find out what they would require for these to be acceptable.
Click to expand...

UL "listed" is what I should have said.

I don't believe the AHJ's inspector "approves" or "dis-approves" anything. He enforces the applicable codes the AHJ has adopted, which includes accepting UL listed equipment.

As stated in a later posting of mine, the inspector is mis-applying 300.4.(B) (1), which does not apply to lighting fixtures, but to metal framing members (metal studs)
 
ivsenroute

ivsenroute

Senior Member
Location
Florida
I would hate to conradict a fellow inspector but I think I am your side with this one from what I hear. Of course once I see it for myself I may change my mind but I can't see going that far for something like that.
 
resistance

resistance

Senior Member
Location
WA
Greg Swartz said:
Understand your point... Never had an issue with this before.
I'd want to wear them down too...

However, consider how many more inspections you will have with this inspector...

Food for thought.
Greg
Click to expand...

Who cares if the OP will have more inspections with the same inspector. Does this mean the OP should kiss butt! I think not! Right is right! End of it! Based on the information listed by the OP, and our company installing the same recess cans in the same way (per manufactures instructions), I see no violation.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Let me first say it seems like a ridiculous call IMO.

Now that said, is there anything in the NEC that requires an inspector / AHJ to accept any product?

Here in MA we have an amendment that requires the inspector of wires to accept listed products when used per the listing. I see nothing similar in the NEC.
 
resistance

resistance

Senior Member
Location
WA
iwire said:
Let me first say it seems like a ridiculous call IMO.

Now that said, is there anything in the NEC that requires an inspector / AHJ to accept any product?

Here in MA we have an amendment that requires the inspector of wires to accept listed products when used per the listing. I see nothing similar in the NEC.
Click to expand...
I'm sure not any product. Yet, I see no reason why an inspector wouldn't be required to accept any listed equipment accredited by the AHJ--where the installer installed per section 110.3(B)
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
resistance said:
Yet, I see no reason why an inspector wouldn't be required to accept any listed equipment accredited by the AHJ--where the installer installed per section 110.3(B)
Click to expand...

We have no idea what the AHJs position is in the OPs case. :smile:

As I said, I think it is a bad call but it seems within the authority of the inspector and / or AHJ.
 
Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Location
HB, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
Occupation
E
electricguy61 said:
I just failed an inspection (I wasn't on-site, the general was there)

We used the romex connectors built into the recessed cans (and UL approved). Inspector says he can feel a rough metal edge on the hole, and so a bushing or connector must be used. This house has @ 50 cans, so you can imagine why I don't want to redo all of them.

Any thoughts, especially from you inspectors?
Click to expand...

i won't even begin to split hairs about code around here, there are
people here far more knowledgeable than i about the nec....

however, i've learned to pick my battles. if the cans aren't sheetrocked
yet, and as you don't have rough electrical, i don't see how they can be...

i'd probably consider just using 1/2" 2 screw connectors and redoing
it.. even if i win this battle, and the inspector eats it, i'm probably going
to be dealing with him long after the 4 hours rework labor is forgotten...

and any inspector worth his clipboard can cost me 4 hours every time
he sees me, for the rest of his life if he wants to.

i was working as a foreman for a 75 man shop, and they had this
13 story core, with parking structure and landscape lighting, and
the GF got into a major hissy fit with the electrical inspector.
he won the first battle, and lost every one after that.

the electrical inspector came up with some of the most amazing
things ever devised.... including a "neutral fault test" and things
went back and forth, and the job stalled, and liquidated damages
ate the electrical contractor alive.

it was a $500k electrical job, and the shop went $300k out of
pocket, and never did get an occupancy permit. they closed their
doors because of this job.

i'll go pretty far out of my way to avoid a peeing contest with an
inspector.

my thought would be to pick your battles carefully.


randy
 
jrannis

jrannis

Senior Member
Location
Fort Lauderdale/ Miami
Just a thought but, can you get your supplier involved? They might want to know if the fixtures are about to be "black listed". Its possible that they deal with this inspector all of the time about the cans.

Even better call for another inspection, when he turns them down again, start smashing them out of the ceiling with a baseball bat, scream and yell at the cans and put on a good show for him. Inspections after that might be real quick and sweet.
 
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