UL Mark

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dereckbc

dereckbc

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OK this came up in a debate I had, and was not sure what stance to take.

Basically a group of engineers say there is no legal wieght or requirement to use UL materials or that appliances needed UL label.

What is the scoop?

I know AHJ's can refuse wiring not using UL, but do they have any legal claim?

Also it was argued there was no requirement that an appliance like a toaster be UL certified. What we did all agree on is electronic equipment must be certified by CE and FCC Part 15, but there is no legal requirement for UL

So what do you think?

EDIT: time for me to confess. Here is what brought this up for discussion.
One of the employees went out on the web and bought a 5 KW Solar PVe system from Sweden that is made for ther US market. Now what is strange about this it is designed so the home owner can install it without an electrician or permits. The GRID TIED inverter is plug-n-Cord connected to a dryer outlet. The unit is not UL listed.
 
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If it's not required then why is there NEC 2008 110.3(B)?

If it's listed and labeled it must be installed per the manufacturers requirements.

I'm sure this will open a can of worms. Let the fishing tournament begin.:grin:
 
BackInTheHabit said:
If it's listed and labeled it must be installed per the manufacturers requirements.
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110.3(B) basically only says you must use something the way the third party certified instructions tell you.

There are very few places in the NEC that require anything more than the approval of the AHJ.
 
jim dungar said:
110.3(B) basically only says you must use something the way the third party certified instructions tell you.

There are very few places in the NEC that require anything more than the approval of the AHJ.
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There is the kicker JIM IMO. UL is not the only game in town. From wikepedia UL does not carry any legal weight.
 
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The code does require the use of listed products in some cases, for example raceways, however the code does require that all "installed" products be approved and 110.3(A)(1) FPN suggests that one method that can be used to identify an approved product is to look for the listing label. However, the equipment in this case is not "installed" and not covered by the code. I am not aware of any rules that require appliances to be listed.
 
benaround said:
So, does this mean that the AHJ has the legal power to require a UL label

for his/her ' approval ' ?
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Only in the same manner that the AHJ can require anything else that is not in the NEC, their state code, or local code.
 
Except for the NEC article sections that specifically require something to be listed, there is no requirement for anything but approval.

This approval would be from the AHJ, whatever/whoever that may be in the particular case.

However, as already mentioned, there may be local or state requirements for third party listing like NC General Statute 66-25

? 66‑25. Acceptable listings as to safety of goods.
All electrical materials, devices, appliances, and equipment shall be evaluated for safety and suitability for intended use. This evaluation shall be conducted in accordance with nationally recognized standards and shall be conducted by a qualified testing laboratory. The Commissioner of Insurance, through the Engineering Division of the Department of Insurance, shall implement the procedures necessary to approve suitable national standards and to approve suitable qualified testing laboratories. The Commissioner may assign his authority to implement the procedures for specific materials, devices, appliances, or equipment to other agencies or bodies when they would be uniquely qualified to implement those procedures.
In the event that the Commissioner determines that electrical materials, devices, appliances, or equipment in question cannot be adequately evaluated through the use of approved national standards or by approved qualified testing laboratories, the Engineering Division of the Department of Insurance shall specify any alternative evaluations which safety requires.
The Engineering Division of the Department of Insurance shall keep in file, where practical, copies of all approved national standards and resumes of approved qualified testing laboratories. (1933, c. 555, s. 3; 1989, c. 681, s. 1.)
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Roger
 
The AHJ needs to decide whether or not an assembly needs to be Listed. Various jurisdictions have requirements that all electrical equipment shall be Listed and Labeled by an approved third party certifier.

Unlike the UL Mark, the CE Marking:
  • Is not a safety certification mark,
  • Is generally based on self-declaration rather than third party certification, and
  • Does not demonstrate compliance to North American safety standards or installation Codes.

The above was taking from and IAEI report http://iaei-western.org/Files/UL-IAEI/2005_UL_IAEI_Meeting.pdf

I know one of you guys can name the date it transitioned. But at one point didn't the NEC specifically list UL listed and then it was a big issues to revise to thrid party. Now ETL and CSA and other are allowed.
 
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