UL508A, mounting standard GFCI breakers from siemens

[SSDriver]

I was wondering if anyone has a part number for the bases to mount standard single Siemens GFCI breakers in a UL508a panel. Most panels in the past use Square D mounting bases. But we have been having a lot of issues with there GFCI's tripping with inverters in boilers and on pool pumps, siemens GFCI's don't have a problem.

I'm looking for a single pole circuit breaker base that will accept a Siemens GFCI breaker (EX: QPF2) that can be mounted in a UL508a panel that has a UL listing. It would be nice to use them as standard breakers are much easier for guys to find and swap out at facilities and this way I can have all the breakers of the same style/manufacturer.

 

[Todd0x1]

Siemens is the absolute worst when it comes to product info. Here's a p/n for a 2 pole mounting base, but they have a note on it that says used in siemens panels only and there is no listing info. Might just need to buy one and see what you get. There does not appear to be a single pole version.

I0204ML1125CU

How many amp breaker are you using? If </=20A have you considered regular breaker + deadfront GFCI?

 

[SSDriver]

Siemens is the absolute worst when it comes to product info. Here's a p/n for a 2 pole mounting base, but they have a note on it that says used in siemens panels only and there is no listing info. Might just need to buy one and see what you get. There does not appear to be a single pole version.

I0204ML1125CU

How many amp breaker are you using? If </=20A have you considered regular breaker + deadfront GFCI?

Thanks for the response. Yes Siemens product info is horrible, it drives me absolutely nuts trying to find a product spec sheet. Half the time their website gives an error when you click the PDF's they supposedly have. I found that 2 pole version and was hoping someone had known of a single pole item that was similar. I guess I will have to order one and see if it has some UL markings.

This panel will have 3 GFCI's circuits and I have others coming up with 6-8 GFCI breakers. The dead fronts would take up a lot of space and time compared to installing some GFCI breakers. If it was only one it wouldn't be such a big deal.

BTW, how are you mounting your dead front GFCI's, in a handy box?

 

[petersonra]

Thanks for the response. Yes Siemens product info is horrible, it drives me absolutely nuts trying to find a product spec sheet. Half the time their website gives an error when you click the PDF's they supposedly have. I found that 2 pole version and was hoping someone had known of a single pole item that was similar. I guess I will have to order one and see if it has some UL markings.

This panel will have 3 GFCI's circuits and I have others coming up with 6-8 GFCI breakers. The dead fronts would take up a lot of space and time compared to installing some GFCI breakers. If it was only one it wouldn't be such a big deal.

BTW, how are you mounting your dead front GFCI's, in a handy box?

I don't believe a mounting bracket like that is required to be listed. Take a close look at what the UL 508A spec says about mechanical components like brackets rivets and screws.

I buy GFCI's and outlets to put in cabinets all the time but I get the ones that already come in a box and mount on a DIN rail. Much cheaper than paying somebody to put it in a box and mount it on the back panel.

 

[SSDriver]

I don't believe a mounting bracket like that is required to be listed. Take a close look at what the UL 508A spec says about mechanical components like brackets rivets and screws.

I buy GFCI's and outlets to put in cabinets all the time but I get the ones that already come in a box and mount on a DIN rail. Much cheaper than paying somebody to put it in a box and mount it on the back panel.

I agree for mounting brackets, but I would think this might be considered a power component as the front of the breaker receives it power from the tab connected to the lug as it is designed to accept regular plug in breakers.

Pic of Siemens I0204ML1125CU

 

[chris kennedy]

Oh yeah, that looks high quality.

 

[Todd0x1]

This panel will have 3 GFCI's circuits and I have others coming up with 6-8 GFCI breakers. The dead fronts would take up a lot of space and time compared to installing some GFCI breakers. If it was only one it wouldn't be such a big deal.

BTW, how are you mounting your dead front GFCI's, in a handy box?

Have you tried Eaton GFCIs? (I havent looked yet to see what they have for mounting bases)

Which SQD breakers were you having issues with, homeline or qo? Or both? I don't know if they have different guts or not.

When we've used standard deadfront GFCIs it has always been in some oddball one off portable application. This is the only picture I have of such a thing.

 

[SSDriver]

Oh yeah, that looks high quality.

I don't think it looks bad. Probably similar to the square d versions once the breakers are added. And they save a ton of space compared to blank face GFCIs. Here's some on an older panel at a facility I was just at.

 

[SSDriver]

I just got the siemens version and it has the UL recognized label and a UL file number. I would think it's good to use. Did not come with any instructions at all.

 

[SSDriver]

Have you tried Eaton GFCIs? (I havent looked yet to see what they have for mounting bases)

Which SQD breakers were you having issues with, homeline or qo? Or both? I don't know if they have different guts or not.

When we've used standard deadfront GFCIs it has always been in some oddball one off portable application. This is the only picture I have of such a thing.
View attachment 2557952

I have not tried eaton yet. That panel looks good, but also looks like a lot of work for gfci protection.

I've had the issue with QO breakers with the pentair Whisperfo pumps with the built in VFDs and the large raypak and lochinvar heaters with drives for the onboard mixing pumps. Random tripping every 1 or 2 days. Put in a sub panel with siemens breakers as that's what pentair recommends and that fixed the issue at multiple jobs.

 

[Todd0x1]

That panel ended up costing substantially less than buying that many GFCI breakers, but the reason we did it like that was so an operator could spot a tripped gfci and reset it without messing with breakers. It was fun to make, I used a nema 1 pullbox for the can, drew the cover up in cad and had it lasercut from a sheet of steel.