davidlbriggs
Member
- Location
- Asheville, TN
- Occupation
- Electrical Design Engineer
Under NEC 2017, can residential electric ranges be hard wired? Does UL 858 allow? If so is no GFCI required? Has TIA 1563 been accepted?
Under NEC 2017, can residential electric ranges be hard wired? Does UL 858 allow? If so is no GFCI required? Has TIA 1563 been accepted?
- Thread starter davidlbriggs
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Hard wiring would under NEC 110.3 B
In 210.8 is the requirement for GFCI protection for outlet or receptacle?
I don’t have access to UL 858 nor the TIA status
In 210.8 is the requirement for GFCI protection for outlet or receptacle?
I don’t have access to UL 858 nor the TIA status
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
To expand upon what Tom stated the electric range would need to be listed for a hardwired connection, cord and plug connection, or both. I've seen many units that were only listed for hardwired connection and came with a whip which contained high temperature conductors. I've also seen guys throw those away and install a rubber cord that might eventually burn up.
Here's some info on the TIA but this for the 2020 NEC.
Here's some info on the TIA but this for the 2020 NEC.
Gfci TIA for Ranges
It looks like they over looked an issue with making ranges 240V gfci protected. This tia is up for vote NFPA 70®-2020 Edition National Electrical Code® TIA Log No.: 1563 Reference: 210.8(A)(7) Exception (new) Comment Closing Date: April 28, 2021 Submitter: Matt Williams/Randy Cooper...
forums.mikeholt.com
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Tom I don't think a hard wire residential range is required to have gfci protection.
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
There's an entire hardwired philosophy that has existed for decades in the nec that trumps any non-solid EGC .........juxtaposed to the fact that ranges (ovens) are required to have a 'means of disconnect' that is lotto capable
~RJ~
~RJ~
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Proposed TIA 1563 was not passed. It did not pass ballot at CMP2. There have been a couple of GFCI TIA proposals that passed ballot at CMP2 but did not at the correlating committee. As far as I know the only one to pass at both CMP2 and the CC, and was issued by the Standards Council is 1593.
That TIA added the following language to 210.8(F).
That TIA added the following language to 210.8(F).
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
maybe the correlating committee could host a few 3 martin luncheons Don? ~RJ~
Tulsa Electrician
Senior Member
- Location
- Tulsa
- Occupation
- Electrician
If hard wired range and use breaker lock device. Would this be compliant in 2020 code.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Isn't the gfci requirement only for receptacles within 6' of a sink?
davidlbriggs
Member
- Location
- Asheville, TN
- Occupation
- Electrical Design Engineer
I don't have the nameplate on this unit, may have tomorrow. They are 'freestanding' Frigidaire units. We are having problems with GFCI 40 Amp 2 pole breakers tripping (there are two identical ranges both doing same thing when turned on). Tripping is not immediate, may take 30 seconds and depends on how much power is turned on. Neither I or the inspector have ever seen a freestanding unit hardwired. Under 210.8 we could dispense with GFCI if hardwired. Is this in the 858 UL listing? These units are still under warranty and we have requested, thru the GC, for service technician. These units have digital control cards. Getting them to work on GFCI could be very problematic; I'm trying to confirm we have a hardwire option. This is a new community center that the owner is really anxious to get the kitchen functioning.
DB
DB
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
That why I asked if the GFCI protection is required for outlet or receptacle, no code book handy
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
For non dwellings under the 2017, all kitchen receptacles have to have GFCI. Hardwired is not mentioned.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
The issue with ranges and ovens and tripping GFCIs is a temporary issue. The problem is that the calrod heating elements take on moisture on the long sea voyage to the US. When you first turn them on, the moisture permits enough ground fault current to flow and the GFCI trips. If you run all of the elements on high for 20-30 minutes with a standard breaker the problem will go away and then you can connect them to the GFCI.
The problem is who is going to pay for all of that extra work. I had a discussion with a NEMA rep at the eastern section meeting and he was telling me about a 400 unit apartment complex where they have this exact issue with all of the electric ranges.
The problem is who is going to pay for all of that extra work. I had a discussion with a NEMA rep at the eastern section meeting and he was telling me about a 400 unit apartment complex where they have this exact issue with all of the electric ranges.
brantmacga
Señor Member
- Location
- Georgia
- Occupation
- Former Child
That’s terrible. We all know exactly who it’s going to fall on. I have a good friend that is a multi family GC; I’m going to ask him tomorrow if they’re having this problem and what they are doing about it.
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davidlbriggs
Member
- Location
- Asheville, TN
- Occupation
- Electrical Design Engineer
I had not heard of or considered possibility of moisture in unit. (My common sense got lost in the weeds). I'll have electrician try your 'dry out' solution tomorrow. Thanks Don.
DB
DB
RRJ
Senior Member
- Location
- atlanta georgia
- Occupation
- Electrician
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
The OP stated that this is a residential range (I would assume in a dwelling) under the 2017 so what is the issue?
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Post #10 implies that he wants to know if it is permissible to not provide GFCI protection if the unit is hardwired. I don't know what you mean about the type of EGC being relevant.
- Status