Undercabinet Lights

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steve66

steve66

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Location
Illinois
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Engineer
Every time I show undercabinet lights on a plan, the installation seems to get butchered. Our spec doesn't usually allow romex, just AC or MC cable. What I usually see is a big hole punched in the wall with a piece of AC cable sticking out going to the light. So it seems the installation is usually left with visible holes in the wall, or exposed pieces of AC.

I would like to add an undercabinet light mounting detail on our drawings, so I was hoping to get some good suggestions for a good way to install these lights.

Thanks for any help:
Steve
 
Details

Details

Well, Good Luck w/ applying a standard design to that. My first thought
that comes to mind is the fact that there two types of cabinets if not more.
The first being the boxed cab. (flush bottom) and one that has a lower collar
or nailer that a Cabinet will sit on. It?s a tough call and even tougher to apply
with multiple trades involved, minus the potential drama, and trying to work
with wall board up and or cabinets in place or to placed, yes one can install
a stubbed out MC/AC, but everyone knows other trades aren't responsible
for protecting that wire, and not a good practice. Plier holes, hand holes,
paddle holes will always be part of our trade.
If you can get all parties involved to sign off on it, is have the sheet rocker rip
a short board that's only extends 6" below the bottom edge of the Cabinet. All Parties have room to work.
 
This may or may not be helpful, depending on the fixture type. If they accept a cable, you need to run the cable to the fixture. The last time I did a large kitchen, the customer wanted dimmable lights under the cabinets, so we settled on incandescent pucks, the kind with 18" lamp-cord pigtails.

But, how to join the lamp cord to the NM coming from the walls? My solution was to terminate the 14-2's in shallow Wiremold boxes with blank plates on them, run the 18 ga lamp cords to the boxes, and secure them to the cabinet bottom with a hot-melt glue gun.

I slit 1/8" rubber tubing to act as grommets to protect the wires from the edges of the Wiremold box holes. The inspector didn't like it, but his boss agreed with my work. I went through each NEC requirement for fixtures, cords, cabinets, structure, etc., and won the debate.
 
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steve66 said:
What I usually see is a big hole punched in the wall with a piece of AC cable sticking out going to the light. So it seems the installation is usually left with visible holes in the wall, or exposed pieces of AC.
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The guys installing the lights should make every effort to conceal the wire yet leave it exposed....this could accomplished by:
- drilling the bottom rail of the cabinet to run the wire through and using AC straps to hold the wire tightly and firmly to the underside of the uppers
- set the fixture back towards the wall slightly or even completely(depending on the actual fixture)
- etc.

It needs some co-ordination amongst trades...If there is a hole, the tapers, painters, etc need to come back and touch-up the area...

1 cable per fixture is the easiest to "hide".
 
celtic said:
The guys installing the lights should make every effort to conceal the wire yet leave it exposed....
Click to expand...


Come on Celtic, make up your mind:grin: But really, I do know what you mean. We want the cable hidden, but accessible.

I should have been more clear. These are fluorescent undercabinet lights with a knock out on the back side.

And I hadn't thought about it before, but the "tail" of the cabinet is probably a lot of the problem. The electrician doesn't want to fish his wire though that piece of the cabinet, but if he drills the hole any lower, we wind up with a hole that is in plain sight.

I guess a detail that would make these installations look nice and clean is just wishful thinking.

Steve
 
When I rough cabinet lights in, I always go 2" higher than the bottom of the upper, usually 56", and I will put cardboard across the bay and then stick my wire out where it needs be, the cardboard allows the wire to be lowered at cabinet iinstallation time, yet keeps it where I want it sticking out... I've never had a problem yet...
 
I don't see the problem here.

First, the builder, the electrician and the cabinet installer need to communicate about the issue. You need to make it clear that the wire needs to come out at the bottom of the cabinet. If you know the height of the upper cabinet then it is as simple as nailing the wire to a stud at exactly the height you want--- you can even put a tag on it.

I always install my wire about 1/2 higher then the bottom of the cabinet. My relationship with the installers is good so they know to pull the wire down a bit and drill the style(SP) at the bottom of the cabinet, if there is one. Otherwise, they will bring the wire out where the bottom is without the style.

I expect the builder to be responsible for communicating with the installers.

Normal cabinet 36" base and the uppers are 18" of the base cabinet-- that sets you at 54 and the 1/2" and the finish floor to the equation and you're good.
 
steve66 said:
I should have been more clear. These are fluorescent undercabinet lights with a knock out on the back side.

And I hadn't thought about it before, but the "tail" of the cabinet is probably a lot of the problem. The electrician doesn't want to fish his wire though that piece of the cabinet, but if he drills the hole any lower, we wind up with a hole that is in plain sight.

I guess a detail that would make these installations look nice and clean is just wishful thinking.
Click to expand...

Wishful thinking???
Keep dreaming ;)

On that recent condo build we did....90+ kitchens, every dam one with those fluore. "inch lights"...."some" of them actually came with their very own connector ~ to fit in the 5/8" (?) "KO" provided.....after wasting time trying to find those things, Mr. Unibit was hired and did a fine job!

A 1" spade/butteryfly bit was what we used on the tail/bottom rail ....sometimes the job required we cut the rock to meet the hole we just drilled ....after the screaming died down, they didn't look bad ~ at least our wire and penetrations didn't...fixture will always look like what it is...a POS.

*TIP*

If at ALL possible ~ try and hit the RIGHT side of the fixture ...after putting in every size from 12" to 48" we decided that was the best location ...no "hit" from the ballast being dead-center, short AC cable no problem (ballast wires are on the right...and do NOT reach all the way LEFT)
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Normal cabinet 36" base and the uppers are 18" of the base cabinet-- that sets you at 54 and the 1/2" and the finish floor to the equation and you're good.
Click to expand...

...assuming floors are level and not 2" out (my job was poured floors...and they were HORRIBLE)....and you know the final selection on floor finish (linoleum/vinyl, hardwood, tile, etc)....
 
celtic said:
...assuming floors are level and not 2" out (my job was poured floors...and they were HORRIBLE)....and you know the final selection on floor finish (linoleum/vinyl, hardwood, tile, etc)....
Click to expand...

If the floor is out of level I find the high spot and measure up from there. I then level around the room. I have been know to use a Transit to keep the boxes at the same height.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
How much did "Mr.Unibit" charge...I hope just a little bit. ;)
Click to expand...

Mr. Unibit is a close and dear personal friend....not many have seen him....just his work ;)
 
undercabinet florescent fixtures

undercabinet florescent fixtures

I allways use single tails brought to a central location where I can hide a jbox accessable of course. I dont like field drilling the fixtures unless I have to. the connectors they provide are small and they only provide one per fixture. I always aim for the center of the fixture because there is always a knockout there and the fixtures come in many lengths. I have worked in 10 story new hospitals where there were many hundreds of these to install there is no easy way they are always a pain to install. Make sure you work out the switch locations and are all clear before the blocking and the rock goes up. Sometimes you are better off just feeding them hot and using the switch provided with the unit. However sometimes in a residential kitchen it is preferable to put all undercabinet lights on a common switch so they all come on at once.
 
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