Underground Ground Electrode Installation

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ccarr7

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Hi Guys,

I have a case where a 200A residential meter socket is not going to be installed against the side of the house, but against a brick wall approx. 10' away from it (long story). I am requiring the electrician to install a meter socket with a 200A breaker in it, and requiring that the ground electrode conductor from the ground rod and from the water pipe be installed to the meter socket since it contains the first point of disconnect. For the water pipe installation from the house out to the meter socket, I'm figuring that installing it in a separate rigid PVC pipe (schedule 40) is acceptable per 250.64of the NEC. Just looking for some verification that this approach is acceptable.

Thanks,
Creig
 
Since the meter and disconnect are on a brick wall 10' from the dwelling I would say that it would constitute a separate structure and the meter and disconnect on the brick wall should have it's own grounding electrode system. There should be a second disconnecting means on the dwelling in accordance with 225.31&32. Also the dwelling disconnecting means would need to be grounded in accordance with 250.32.

Chris
 
Chris,

If I'm interpreting your response correctly, we're looking at a ground electrode conductor from the water pipe and ground rod to the meter socket with 200A disconnect, and a second set of ground electrode conductors from the water pipe and ground rod to the main panel (includes a 200A main breaker). Is that correct?

Thanks,
Creig
 
ccarr7 said:
Chris,

If I'm interpreting your response correctly, we're looking at a ground electrode conductor from the water pipe and ground rod to the meter socket with 200A disconnect, and a second set of ground electrode conductors from the water pipe and ground rod to the main panel (includes a 200A main breaker). Is that correct?

Thanks,
Creig
Click to expand...

No, what I am getting at is the meter socket and 200 amp disconnect are mounted on a brick wall which would be a separate structure from the dwelling. The service on the brick wall would need to have a separate grounding electrode system for that wall, not the water pipe and ground rod from the home. Most likely this would be 2 ground rods driven at the meter socket disconnect location.

In addition because the home is now a structure supplied by a feeder you would need an additional disconnecting means for the home in accordance with 220.31. This could be the main breaker panel in the home provided that it is located nearest the point of entrance of the feeder conductors. (See 225.32). Now because this is a structure supplied by a feeder you would need to connect all electrodes present at the home to the disconnecting means equipment grounding bar in accordance with 250.32.

Hope this makes sense.:)

Chris
 
I think I have it...now if I'm interpreting 250.32(B) correctly, I should pull an equipment ground from the meter socket to the main panel with the feeder conductors, but keep the neutral isolated from the equipment ground conductor and ground electrode system for the home at the panel inside the home, correct?
 
Why do you want the service disconnect at the meter? There is no code reason to have it there and putting it there, under the 2008 code, requires a 4 wire feeder to the house. Why not just put the meter there and run the sevice conductors to the panel in the house, assuming compliance with 230.90(A)(1)?
 
ccarr7 said:
I think I have it...now if I'm interpreting 250.32(B) correctly, I should pull an equipment ground from the meter socket to the main panel with the feeder conductors, but keep the neutral isolated from the equipment ground conductor and ground electrode system for the home at the panel inside the home, correct?
Click to expand...

Yes, you need to pull and equipment grounding conductor from the 200 amp disconnect to the panel at the home and keep the neutral isolated from the EGC bar at the panel.

Chris
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Why do you want the service disconnect at the meter? There is no code reason to have it there and putting it there, under the 2008 code, requires a 4 wire feeder to the house. Why not just put the meter there and run the sevice conductors to the panel in the house, assuming compliance with 230.90(A)(1)?
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Chris
 
Don,

The City Code has changed to require an external disconnect for access for the Fire Department in case of an emergency.

What is the NEC section that requires a 4-wire feed if an external disconnect is installed?

Thanks,
Creig
 
ccarr7 said:
Don,

The City Code has changed to require an external disconnect for access for the Fire Department in case of an emergency.

What is the NEC section that requires a 4-wire feed if an external disconnect is installed?

Thanks,
Creig
Click to expand...
250.24(A)(5) and 250.32(B)
 
What I am trying to say is everything the POCO and the city makes me do before I have control of the wiring is exempt from the NEC. So shouldn't I be allowed to start the NEC where I take control?
 
ccarr7 said:
The City Code has changed to require an external disconnect for access for the Fire Department in case of an emergency.
Click to expand...
The meter alone on the wall, and a main disco or panel on the outside of the house, where the bonding could take place, would satisfy everyone's requirements.

That way, the run from the wall to the house is still service and need be only three conductors. The meter is merely "a lump in the service conductors."
 
LarryFine said:
The meter alone on the wall, and a main disco or panel on the outside of the house, where the bonding could take place, would satisfy everyone's requirements.

That way, the run from the wall to the house is still service and need be only three conductors. The meter is merely "a lump in the service conductors."
Click to expand...

That is what I wanted to hear.
 
Underground Ground Electrode Installation

LarryFine said:
The meter alone on the wall, and a main disco or panel on the outside of the house, where the bonding could take place, would satisfy everyone's requirements.

That way, the run from the wall to the house is still service and need be only three conductors. The meter is merely "a lump in the service conductors."
Click to expand...

Sounds good to me, but it would not fly here because POCO requires a disconnect at a meter pedestal or wall as the case might be.
 
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