Underground PVC Conduit at Service Entrance for Physical Protection: 300.15(C)

[bsw0]

NEC 300.15(C) requires a fitting where cables exit any conduit including non-metallic conduit. How does this apply to a service entrance where the conduit is used for physical protection only and terminates underground? What is the appropriate fitting to use for Schedule 80 PVC?

a) a male adapter and a threaded insulated bushing
b) an unthreaded insulated bushing for Rigid/IMC
c) a pvc box adapter and coupler
d) nothing at all, knock down the sharp edges
e) any of the above
f) none of the above
g)ask the POCO/AHJ because the NEC / UL Listing requirements are often superseded/ignored

 

[Smart $]

IMO a PVC End Bell...

 

[FionaZuppa]

chamfer the inside and outside edges of the ends, or put a bell fitting on (bell fitting will be smoother).
if just for phys protection i would drill a few ~1/4" holes in PVC (all in one line) and place those down so that water can get out.

 

[iwire]

chamfer the inside and outside edges of the ends, or put a bell fitting on (bell fitting will be smoother).
if just for phys protection i would drill a few ~1/4" holes in PVC (all in one line) and place those down so that water can get out.

You sure make me go :?

You are recommending drain holes to let water out of a pipe containing direct bury cable and that has an open end. :huh:

 

[iwire]

IMO a PVC End Bell...

View attachment 15266

You and me both but out of all the products I order this is one of the few that ends up on back order and I don't get them before I need them.

 

[FionaZuppa]

You sure make me go :?

You are recommending drain holes to let water out of a pipe containing direct bury cable and that has an open end. :huh:

right. pvc will bend. w/o drain holes the water will pool and sit. avoid sitting water........ avoid having wires sit in water (if possible), etc.
and am i wrong, the PVC as-used has no NEC requirements, its not technically a raceway in its use.

 

[bsw0]

You and me both but out of all the products I order this is one of the few that ends up on back order and I don't get them before I need them.

All of the PVC end bells I see listed are sch 40. Carlon, canflex, etc. This isn't necessarily a problem, but with the smaller ID of sch 80 PVC conduit, there is still a sharp edge on the inside of the sch 80 conduit that isn't protected by the fitting. This also occurs with many of the other options I listed. it looks like knocking the sharp edge off of the inside of the pipe is good practice regardless of the method used.

 

[iwire]

All of the PVC end bells I see listed are sch 40. Carlon, canflex, etc.

I do not believe there are any schedule 80 fittings of any type.

there is still a sharp edge on the inside of the sch 80 conduit that isn't protected by the fitting.

I understand now, I think the only way you could deal with that is with a grinder / file to knock the edge down as you mentioned.

 

[FionaZuppa]

I do not believe there are any schedule 80 fittings of any type.



I understand now, I think the only way you could deal with that is with a grinder / file to knock the edge down as you mentioned.

there are plenty of sched-80 gray fittings. but the PVC used in this application is not under NEC rule, its just a physical barrier device, sched-80 white pvc would also suffice. if a sharp edge might compromise the wire, then remove the sharp edge, just chamfer a 45 to the outer OD edge and be done with it, drop it in, bury accordingly. or do slight rounding of that sharp edge and then slap on whatever bell fitting you can find.

 

[iwire]

there are plenty of sched-80 gray fittings.

Can you post a link to schedule 80 PVC electrical fittings?

but the PVC used in this application is not under NEC rule, its just a physical barrier device, sched-80 white pvc would also suffice.

I believe one end of this PVC terminates in the meter socket as such white plumbing PVC is not going to fly.

 

[FionaZuppa]

Can you post a link to schedule 80 PVC electrical fittings?



I believe one end of this PVC terminates in the meter socket as such white plumbing PVC is not going to fly.

ah, i thought it was just pvc in the ground protecting the UF. wasnt clear the pvc was being used where termination was the meter, etc.

so one end is in meter, other end is open in the ground. i still see it as a physical barrier and not a raceway. sched 40 fitting on end in ground, or just chamfer the edge, what else is needed? other than riser being gray, the in ground PVC could be std white PVC.


http://pvcpipesupplies.com/2-male-adapter-836-020.html

 

[FionaZuppa]

i read into the nec code more.
fitting is needed, does not specify type.
just knock down the edge, add a sched 40 fitting, a bell of any color shall suffice

and for clarity, sched 80 & 40 have same OD.

 

[iwire]

ah, i thought it was just pvc in the ground protecting the UF. wasnt clear the pvc was being used where termination was the meter, etc.

I agree with you if it was in the middle of a run it could be plumbing pipe.

so one end is in meter, other end is open in the ground. i still see it as a physical barrier and not a raceway.

Good luck with that in the real world. If the electrical inspector sees white PVC plumbing pipe terminating into an electrical enclosure it is going to be a show stopper.

http://pvcpipesupplies.com/2-male-adapter-836-020.html

Well I leaned something, or unlearned something, either way thanks.

 

[iwire]

i read into the nec code more.
fitting is needed, does not specify type.

Correct

bell of any color shall suffice

I disagree, IMO we are talking about a raceway and therefore a proper listed fitting is required. Plumbing fittings are out.

and for clarity, sched 80 & 40 have same OD.

Hope so, going to make the fittings work funny if not.

 

[FionaZuppa]

Good luck with that in the real world. If the electrical inspector sees white PVC plumbing pipe terminating into an electrical enclosure it is going to be a show stopper.

i would argue that only the riser must be gray ("electrical") sched-80, and that the rest underground is just a protective conduit, and as such the in-ground parts can be anything adequate enough to protect the UF.

if you say its a raceway then it cannot just terminate in the ground open ended.

 

[iwire]

i would argue that only the riser must be gray ("electrical") sched-80, and that the rest underground is just a protective conduit, and as such the in-ground parts can be anything adequate enough to protect the UF.

I understood your position and yet you will not pass inspection in the real world.

if you say its a raceway then it cannot just terminate in the ground open ended.

Code support for that opinion?

 

[Cow]

All of the PVC end bells I see listed are sch 40. Carlon, canflex, etc. This isn't necessarily a problem, but with the smaller ID of sch 80 PVC conduit, there is still a sharp edge on the inside of the sch 80 conduit that isn't protected by the fitting. This also occurs with many of the other options I listed. it looks like knocking the sharp edge off of the inside of the pipe is good practice regardless of the method used.

I think you're making this out to be a bigger problem than it is.

I'm sure we've all seen countless pvc installs with nothing on the end of the conduit. Handhole boxes are one place. Take a look at the pvc risers the poco runs up their poles. I rarely see a bell end and those wires are usually at primary voltages. If those installs out in the wind and rain aren't blowing up left and right because of sharp edges, a sch. 40 bell end on a sch. 80 conduit that has a little bit of lip on the inside is a nonissue.

Just my opinion.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

I was given a letter from Kraloy a pvc manufacturer that states all their fittings are designed with smooth round edges to meet 352.46 and as such would believe they meet other similar articles in the NEC and that other manufactorers may also meet this requirement. So a bell fitting may not be required if an other compliant fitting was used.

 

[growler]

NEC 300.15(C) requires a fitting where cables exit any conduit including non-metallic conduit. How does this apply to a service entrance where the conduit is used for physical protection only and terminates underground? What is the appropriate fitting to use for Schedule 80 PVC?

Here is how it works in the real world around here.

Schedule 80 PVC to get you below grade for physical protection.
Schedule 40 PVC 90 with a coupling on the end.
Pass inspection.
Power compay guys take the 90 off and toss it over so you can use it on the next job. I don't know what they do if you are not there but if you are there you can reclaim your 90 if not glued and if you do glue it they are not happy campers.

It's not perfect but the system works.

 

[FionaZuppa]

I think you're making this out to be a bigger problem than it is.

I'm sure we've all seen countless pvc installs with nothing on the end of the conduit. Handhole boxes are one place. Take a look at the pvc risers the poco runs up their poles. I rarely see a bell end and those wires are usually at primary voltages. If those installs out in the wind and rain aren't blowing up left and right because of sharp edges, a sch. 40 bell end on a sch. 80 conduit that has a little bit of lip on the inside is a nonissue.

Just my opinion.

but poco are poco, they are special
the AHJ should not fail inspection if the pvc in ground for phys protection is red, white, or blue. by code a "fitting" needs to be on the end. in reality, a bell end or a good chamfer should suffice. by code, shove a bell on.