Underground "service" ?

[celtic]

Running a 60A feeder to a residential garage(MLO sub-panel)....undergound in PVC. Would I need a GFCI CB in the main panel? (12 hour day today,so far - still doing an estimate..too tired to look it up...help?)

[ April 29, 2005, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: celtic ]

 

[iwire]

Re: Underground "service" ?

No GFCI required on feeders.

 

[celtic]

Re: Underground "service" ?

Thanks iwire...
it's been one "those" days...

- started out fine, pulling 3 permits for next week...2 were denied

Time for a beer I think...then load truck for tom'row's H.F.H. charity event.

 

[southernboys]

Re: Underground "service" ?

well celtic I would say thank god its friday but since ya goota work tommorow at least it aint monday. as I always say it can only get better

 

[celtic]

Re: Underground "service" ?

Thnaks SB...Monday will be a clean-up day...weather for tom'row is all rain all the time..oh, joy. LOL

 

[benaround]

Re: Underground "service" ?

Celtic,
MLO sub panel? Garage is definitly a structure ,Main Breaker or Disconect plus GES if available or grd. rod(s) 225.31,250.32

frank

 

[dillon3c]

Re: Underground "service" ?

benaround,
iwire was correct.This will be a 60 amp MLO sub in detached garage.-Four circuit panel-

225.33(a)

[ April 30, 2005, 12:48 AM: Message edited by: dillon3c ]

 

[celtic]

Re: Underground "service" ?

who's doing this job...me or you dillon?
That's the exact panel being installed.

 

[dillon3c]

Re: Underground "service" ?

Got a square D cat.# number if it will help you out brother-(grin'in)good luck on your bid..

 

[celtic]

Re: Underground "service" ?

Thanks man..but too late...this was my last "job" of the day...an estimate for a buddy EC who is TOTALLY clueless on bidding. He calls me at least 2x a week for a price. I can only guess my numbers are making him money as he keeps calling...I suggested he make a check out for $100 for my kid's college IRA ($100 is the diff. between a 60A GFI CB and 60A CB) - it's the LEAST he could do...LOL.

 

[dillon3c]

Re: Underground "service" ?

[QB] He calls me at least 2x a week for a price. I can only guess my numbers are making him money as he keeps calling..

celtic,
I remeber reading your numbers in the new ceiling fan installation on the exsisting army base in one thread..Yeh,your numbers were right on target as I remeber..You friend, continues to come back for a reason celtic..Wish you many success and safety sir..

Note: You friend, he needs to be doing something for your family..Mowing the grass..doing something....

 

[celtic]

Re: Underground "service" ?

Originally posted by dillon3c:
...your numbers were right on target...

Tell that to the customer I spent 5 hours with on Saturday, then 2 more hours on the phone with Monday. They are freaking out my 12k price for the 1200 sq. ft 2nd flr addition....which includes a new 200A service, a 100A sub panel, jacuzzi wiring, 11 smokes, 7 recessed cans, 4 ceiling fans, demo to seperate 1st flr circuits from 2nd, etc...AND the "while your here" crap - above ground pool, electric retractable awning (on a 3 way), a few soffit outlets for her "decorations", doorbells, cable & telephone jax, motion detectors on everything...and so on.
Shop around...you get what you pay for.

Originally posted by dillon3c:

Note: You friend, he needs to be doing something for your family..Mowing the grass..doing something....

Funny you should say that....I am waiting for a call from a REA agent he does a lot of work for...my buddy is a bit too busy to be doing the "small" jobs..I say a GFI replacement for a seller equals a new service for a buyer! You never know.

 

[sandsnow]

Re: Underground "service" ?

Originally posted by celtic:

- did I mention I spent the ENTIRE day traveling around 3 counties with my fly open?

Wow, there's a picture I didn't need

I hope things calm done for you

 

[electrofelon]

Re: Underground "service" ?

For a residential house+ garage, would 225.32 exception 1 allow the disco for the garage to be located in the main panel in the house? What exactly are documented safe switching procedures anyway?
~Electro

 

[iwire]

Re: Underground "service" ?

Originally posted by electrofelon:
For a residential house+ garage, would 225.32 exception 1 allow the disco for the garage to be located in the main panel in the house? What exactly are documented safe switching procedures anyway?
~Electro

Lets look at the exception.

225.32Exception No. 1: For installations under single management, where documented safe switching procedures are established and maintained for disconnection, and where the installation is monitored by qualified individuals, the disconnecting means shall be permitted to be located elsewhere on the premises.

I guess we could say a dwelling is under single management, I think that would depend on the husband and wifes relationship.

IMO what can not be overlooked is "documented safe switching procedures". That would be written instructions maintained on the premises and having qualified individuals on site to implement those procedures.

Article 100

Qualified Person. One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of the electrical equipment and installations and has received safety training on the hazards involved.

I doubt any inspector is going to allow this exception to be applied to a dwelling unit.

In my opinion this exception is for use by industrial establishments that have full time qualified people on staff and well established safety procedures.

It is really up to the inspector or AHJ.

By the way, as long as the panel in the garage has 6 or less branch circuit breakers installed you do not need a main disconect. 225.33(A)

 

[infinity]

Re: Underground "service" ?

They are freaking out my 12k price for the 1200 sq. ft 2nd flr addition....which includes a new 200A service, a 100A sub panel, jacuzzi wiring, 11 smokes, 7 recessed cans, 4 ceiling fans, demo to seperate 1st flr circuits from 2nd, etc...AND the "while your here" crap - above ground pool, electric retractable awning (on a 3 way), a few soffit outlets for her "decorations", doorbells, cable & telephone jax, motion detectors on everything...and so on.
Shop around...you get what you pay for.

Glad I'm not bidding against you or I'd never get a job. Tell the HO that they're getting a more than fair price, they're getting a bargin! .

[ April 30, 2005, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: infinity ]

 

[celtic]

Re: Underground "service" ?

Originally posted by infinity:
Glad I'm not bidding against you or I'd never get a job. Tell the HO that they're getting a more than fair price, they're getting a bargin! .

That price is dropped from an original 13.5k...but I also reduce the "quality"...all circuits would have been #12 min, service would have been in pipe/conduit/tubing (just to stir the pot...LOL), upgrade devices to Decora style, etc...the 12k price is for "sized" conductors (#14 where ever possible), service in SE, etc.
IMHO, no matter how you slice it...it is a fair price. She "intends" to get other bids. I say go for it - just make sure we are all bidding on the same quantity and quality of materials. For me, that means no big box crap, all QO panels, etc.

...and the job is an hour away from me - each way.

 

[infinity]

Re: Underground "service" ?

Hey, I hope that you get the job. I just wanted to point out that I thought that your price sounded very fair. Trying to convince Mr. and Mrs. Homeowner is sometimes harder than doing the work because as you said someone will come in and sell them on inferior crap and undercut your price. Every article or book that I read always says that a HO shouldn't assume that the lowest price is always the best price. Those of us who are purveyors of quality try to follow the rule that you'll get what you pay for. Good Luck!

 

[mc5w]

Re: Underground "service" ?

Hi Celtic,

I too have had a hectic week at 1 time but that was years ago.

By the way, a subpanel that feeds a jacuzzi needs to have its feeder in conduit. See NEC 680.25. For some reason, LFNC conduit is allowed but somehow liquidtight flexible metal conduit is not allowed.

 

[electrofelon]

Re: Underground "service" ?

Iwire,

Thanks for the breakdown. i figured that exception was more oriented toward industrial/commercial, but my thinking was that one could argue that because a residential system is so basic, nearly anyone could be considered qualified to flip the main in the house. Like you said, it would have to be a AHJ call.