Unfinished Basements

[davidselectrical]

I have recently completed an basement renovation. In the main area of the basement the customer simply painted the concrete walls and floor. All of the wiring was run in conduit along the outside walls. The customer has a utility area that does have GFCI protection for the recepticals complying with 210.8(A)(5). The outlet spacing does comply with 210.52 in the main areas (pool table/ Theater/ etc). The inspector is saying that the main area needs to have GFCI protection because the floors do not have carpet or tile so the room is concidered unfinished. I can not find that definition in the code book. I feel that the room is concidered a habitable room, how the customer decided to finish the walls and floor should not be an issue. The inspector said that he will respect your opinion on this matter.
thank you

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Unfinished Basements

In my opinion, the key issue in determining the definition of "unfinished" is to consider the intented use use of the area. Section 210.8(A)(5) lists that areas will be limited to work, storage, and the like. Your explanation of the intended use of the area makes it sound much more like a habitable room or maybe even a recreation room.

The intent of the section is no longer a concern at this point. I see nothing in the code that requires a specific finish or trim detail to be considered "unfinished" or not. The code is concerned with receptacle use.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Unfinished Basements

In Florida most homes have concrete floors and no gfci is required.Carpet changes nothing and tile is basically no better than concrete.Nothing in building code requires carpet or tile.I do see his concern as bare feet on concrete is not good but unless he can find anything in the code to back this up ,i think the most he can do is suggest the gfci.And if it was my wife and kids i would want them.

 

[tom baker]

Re: Unfinished Basements

"The inspector said that he will respect your opinion on this matter". What a compliment!

[ August 03, 2004, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: tom baker ]

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: Unfinished Basements

Tom i 2nd that statement As I see it if you are using it as habitable/living space no gfci protection required but areas that are still in a basement enviorment yes gfci.As i see it gfci was intended to protect service guys doing their job in a damp/wet enviorment not pool players having a beer high and dry.JMHO,ask the AHJ they have the final say so.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Unfinished Basements

At first glance I figured this was another dopey inspector. 'Till I read this part.

Originally posted by davidselectrical:
inspector said that he will respect your opinion on this matter.

Can't be all that bad.

 

[charlie b]

Re: Unfinished Basements

If the Inspector is not already a member of this Forum, please extend him an invitation to join. I respect the opinion of Inspectors as well. I think it is a big help when one posts a statement like, ?I have always allowed that . . . ? or like, ?I saw something similar last week, and I disallowed it because I considered it to be a violation of Article . . . .?

 

[volt101]

Re: Unfinished Basements

I did an inspection on a house that had two "unfinished bedrooms" in the basement. Sheetrock up, and a coat of primer on the walls. The only thing missing was the carpet. The electrician on the site had installed an arc-fault breaker for each of the bedrooms(yes, even for the smokes). Should I have made him change the breaker to a GFI type and lose the arc-fault protection for a bedroom that someone with cold feet could sleep in? FYI I let the arc-faults stay.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Unfinished Basements

if it has a closet and has receptacles spaced per code on arc faults and smokes i think we must call it a bedroom.IT WALKS LIKE A DUCK AND TALKS LIKE A DUCK IT IS A -------------
Had you forced removal of them arc faults you could find yourself in court someday.And arc faults are permitted in any room just not required except for bedrooms

[ August 04, 2004, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]

 

[pierre]

Re: Unfinished Basements

Try this:
Take one of the leads of your tester and make good contact with the concrete floor, the take the other lead of your tester and put it into one prong of the energized side of a receptacle, or the bus of a panel if located in a room where concrete is the flooring material. I would be surprised if you did not get a high voltage reading.
The local building department determines if the basement is finished, and they all have different requirements as to what is finished, so that determination is up to them.
I agree that paint does offer some resistance, but how much??? I don't know.
Asking for GFCI protection is not a dumb thing, but as for saying it is required can really only be determined by the local authorities in that jurisdiction based on their codes.

The boxes are installed on an outside masonary wall - if of metal would you require the 1/4 inch space?

Pierre

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Unfinished Basements

Originally posted by pierre:
The boxes are installed on an outside masonary wall - if of metal would you require the 1/4 inch space?

Pierre

No.