Ungrounded conductor colors

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Larry the cable guy

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I just encountered an electrical contractor that has a completely new idea for pulling wires to a 3 phase 480 volt motor. He pulled 3 motors in a conduit which I am fine with. He had 3 brown, 3 orange, and 3 yellows and a green. So far so good. When He finished pulling in to the MCC he cut off the excess. I asked if he planned to ring them out and he said "I don't need to. I will put 3 browns on one motor, 3 orange on the other motor, and 3 yellow on the last one." he also said that there is nothing in the code that says he can't do it. I personally don't like these methods. I searched the code 210.5c is the best I could come up with. The contractor said that it is not a branch circuit. I would like to hear what others say. Thanks
 
Dennis Alwon said:
IMO, 210.5(C)(1) applies and would disallow that install
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210.1 Scope. This article covers branch circuits except for
branch circuits that supply only motor loads, which are
covered in Article 430. Provisions of this article and Article
430 apply to branch circuits with combination loads.
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Article 430 has no requirement for identification of ungrounded conductors.
 
Smart $ said:
Article 430 has no requirement for identification of ungrounded conductors.
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Wow, I never considered this as overiding the color coding requirement, but you may have a point. I can see that this could be a long discussion. It's funny that Art. 430 is called out specifically here but the table says it adds or amends for lots of other articles, including 430.
 
Good call on 210.1 I have been wiring motors with brown orange yellow forever and feel that these methods used by the other contractor are just laziness on their part. I wish this would be passed as a code. It is helpful in the field to know which wire is which.
 
At least do the common colors as a courtesy to other electricians that may have to work on this. I have worked with a lot of other guys in my time and have never ran across this before. Even from the worst of them.
 
I find it more important in most cases to get the right three conductors to each motor than to have each phase individually identified. When starting up you will need to check rotation - but even if you know phases you check anyway just in case, I don't know why some think that is lazy, it is just a different approach.

Even if 210.5 applies this practice is not against code if only one nominal voltage system exists.

Some people get too hung up on color, when color is only one acceptable method of identification. The current and voltage does not care what color conductor insulation is.
 
It is important to get the right 3 wires to each motor. And this can be achieved just as easily when identifying each phase by color as it is to just mark all phases the same color. This method won't prove to be idiotproof if they pull 6 sets in conduit. Checking rotation at start up is common practice, no matter how sure one thinks they are and has nothing to do with this topic.
 
Larry the cable guy said:
At least do the common colors as a courtesy to other electricians that may have to work on this. I have worked with a lot of other guys in my time and have never ran across this before. Even from the worst of them.
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So basically you want a code to force people to do things the way you like to do things.

I hope we don't get to that point.
 
Throwing ease of,convenience of,speed of, etc dealing with the installation of the above out the window...............The practice of more than one(1) motor being served by just one conduit is normally defined as taboo by the owner in a processing facility.

The loss of just one conductor could take out any and all motors being served and shutdown a facility where the loss of just one of those motors the process would probably still be operational. It usually wasn't a call to be made but defined in the General Electrical Specs.

The rebuild would certainly be costly too.

dick
 
If the identification by phase and system rule applied to motor circuit conductors, then phase rotation correction would have to be made at the motor and not at the starter.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
If the identification by phase and system rule applied to motor circuit conductors, then phase rotation correction would have to be made at the motor and not at the starter.
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Why couldn't it be done at the starter? I seem to remember it being done that way on occasion>

dick
 
dicklaxt said:
Why couldn't it be done at the starter? I seem to remember it being done that way on occasion>

dick
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If you reverse anywhere except at the motor your marking method will no longer be accurate unless you change the marking at every point afterward.
 
Interesting .... another new twist in 2011.

What the contractor proposes to do was once fairly common, and makes a good deal of sense. Having had to sort out one arrangement where the wires got mixed up, you really do want to make the final pull goof-proof.

As much as I like color coding, this is but another example of why a 'one size fits all' rule or practice doesn't help. Trade practices are nice, but you have to use them as a guide, and not as gospel.
 
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