Ungrounded DirecTV Dish System?

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n3ntj

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I recently ran across a DirecTV system that does not appear to be properly grounded.

The dish's mounting arm (on the home) is connected using a 14 AWG insulated copper which is connected to a grounding block on the other end. The DirecTV system coax (RG-6) runs from the dish to this junction terminal (like a multiple barrel connector for multiple runs of coax) and other pieces of RG-6 run into the home to the receivers.

The DirecTV installer then ran 14 AWG insulated copper from this grounding block to a nearby water spigot. What he didn't know is that the home has plastic plumbing. It appears the DirecTV system (the dish and grounding block, in particular) is bonded to plastic plumbing and there is no ground rod or no grounding line from the DirecTV grounding block to the home's driven ground rod. The home's driven rod is approx. 50' away from the dish.

I know there is a rule for the maximum length for running the bonding wire to the rod; 20' sticks in my mind. How should this system been grounded??

The big question is...Does the NEC require a separate driven rod near the dish to ground the dish and grounding block to? In this situation, how should the DirecTV installed have bonded or grounded the dish and grounding block?

Thank you,
Matt
 
See Article 810.20/21

Simply stated, grounding should be done with minimum #10 copper, #8 aluminum, or #17 copper-clad steel or bronze. RG-6 and Dual RG-6 can be purchased with an additional #17 copper-clad steel conductor for grounding. The grounding conductors have to be bonded to essentially any point of the power service grounding system and can be run as the crow flies, inside or out or any combination thereof, and must be supported.

There are considerations when power service grounding is not available, but it's quite hard to watch TV let alone satellite TV without power ...though it could be done via automotive means: 12 volt TV and 12 to 120 volt inverter :D, but I doubt that is the case here. Even if the nearest available grounding electrode is used, or added, --guess what?-- a bonding jumper of #6 copper or equivalent will have to be run to and bonded to the power service grounding electrode system :D :D
 
Ungrounded DirecTV Dish System?

I called and talked to a DTV tech and he said that the system is indeed grounded to the grounding block (where the coax and dish jumper are connected), then through the outer conductor of the coax, then through the satellite receiver, then through the grounded plug of the receiver into a 3 prong grounded receptacle and then to the electrical service's ground rod. A long path it appears. The NEC does not require the dish and grounding block to actually be connected directly to a ground rod?

In other words, they say it is 'properly grounded' through the coax which is connected to the receiver's plug. It never actually does have its own direct ground rod. Instead it is connected through the home's electrical system to ground; no DTV ground of its own.

Is this proper per NEC? Confused.
 
The DTV tech is wrong. A bonding jumper from the coax block and the antenna mast is required to one of 5 locations listed in Arts 810 and 820.
Your objective is to create a single point ground system. All components are referenced to the same location, in the event of a lightning strike all components are elevated above the ground potential, but equalpotential, so no current flow.
If installed per the DTV tech, the lightning energy will find its way to ground via the electronics. Poof!
Ask if the DTV tech has ever read NEC Art 810, 820 or pulled a permit. There must be millions of DTV improperly installed
 
Wasn't there some class action suit about improperly installed DTV systems regarding this exact issue (grounding)? It seems pervasive that they don't know what they're doing when it comes to grounding the systems they install. I can sympathize with many of the older houses they're going to have to deal with (no exposed electrode, service on the opposite side of the house, house surrounded with concrete or pavement, service panel in a finished wall). Most techs aren't going to want to open the meter to ground to the meterbase either (and that may not even be allowed in some areas). They will have to hope an external metallic service raceway is available and closest.
 
Ungrounded DirecTV Dish System?

Thanks Tom and Mark. I thought this had to be bonded in a way other than how it was done or how the tech said it should be. The tech said it was indeed grounded properly, but I told him it is only connected via the satellite equipment and this appears to not follow NEC requirements. I asked him if he knew the requirements of parts 810 and 820 and he said no. I told him "you may want to seriously think about reading it!".

Mark, it is DishNetwork that is in trouble for grounding issues such as this, but I've not heard that DirecTV had the same legal problems. I would expect both have major liability issues with millions of improper professional installations across the country.
 
n3ntj said:
...it is DishNetwork that is in trouble for grounding issues such as this, but I've not heard that DirecTV had the same legal problems. I would expect both have major liability issues with millions of improper professional installations across the country.
Click to expand...
DirecTV and DISH Network both do not do installations. They contract them out. The installation contractors are liable for improperly grounded systems they installed. As for consumer installed systems, the installation manual usually includes a way too brief explanation of proper grounding, and usually includes a "blanket" reference to NEC requirements. It is all a result of their legal staff's work!
 
This is from a similar thread:

When I had my Dish Network system installed several years ago the installer provided no lightning protection or shield grounding on the cables. The installer told me that they don't bother to provide lightning protection when the dish is surrounded by higher trees. Given the fact that I had to lend him some tools I wasn't about to argue with the guy since he obviously had no clue. Since the installer had finished and left I called Dish technical support and they told me that the system should have been installed according to the NEC and that they would have to schedule an appointment to send out another guy to fix the problem. So I thought about spending half a day waiting for them to show up and decided to simply fix the problem myself. After reading Mike's newsletter I'm not surprised that a huge number of their installs are unsafe.


Mike sent out a newsletter about this problem. It seems to be very widespread. As other have said, sounds like a big class action lawsuit brewing.
 
n3ntj said:
I called and talked to a DTV tech and he said that the system is indeed grounded to the grounding block (where the coax and dish jumper are connected), then through the outer conductor of the coax, then through the satellite receiver, then through the grounded plug of the receiver into a 3 prong grounded receptacle and then to the electrical service's ground rod.
Click to expand...
Wow I'm impressed. This is indeed the grounding path for this installation; I'm surprised a dish installer would know enough to know this. It also violates the NEC. The coax grounding block must be bonded to the service ground at one of the allowed points; in this instance, since the electrode is so far away, it must be connected to a supplemental electrode, which is then bonded to the main grounding electrode with a #6.

Most of the dish installations I see are non-compliant, especially now that a cold water pipe can't be used unless it is within 3 feet of the point where the underground pipe enters the house. Usually, if they are grounded at all, it's to a water spigot, or an outside j-box.
 
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sat tv

sat tv

I read some of the threads on grounding sat TV and I have always grounded them in this manor. There is a block where the coax connects and a place to run a ground wire,
Or there is a switch, which is grounded. Then I would run a ground rod in and connect up to it. If the phone or power ground near I would use it. If I had to run a separate rod I would find the power and phone rods and connect up all the rods with #6 copper. I know this might seem over the top butt I don?t want any stray voltage going through the house and out some other side. Am I wrong is this too much work and cost. Also where I live in mn we have a lot of sand so you can?t just drive in a ground rod and say that?s good. I used to use a megger to check the soil to see just what size and length of rod I needed; there is a lot to say about grounding. I really don?t want to be the last one to work on some thing and get slammed for damage or a fire. I could be wrong what do you think
Mijwho
 
Mijwho:
bonding the seperate grounding electrodes together with 6 awg is "not over the top" its required in Art 800, 810 and 820.
You are not bonding for stray voltage, you are bonding to create an equalpotenital plane to eleminate differences in voltage due to lightning or high voltage surges.
And the resistance of the earth ground does not matter. If all the communications systems are bonded together then there is be little or no difference in potential, hence no current flow. The voltage gradient of the earth will rise in a lightning strike, and the communications equipment will be at some voltage above the earth, but there should be no damage.
A properly designed communications system can survive a direct lighting strike.
 
Ungrounded DirecTV Dish System?

So another ground rod is required in the approx. area of the dish and coax grounding block? Both get bonded to it with at least a 10 AWG copper.

Then, a run of 6 AWG copper is also required to bond this new ground rod to the main electrical service ground rod. This bond between ground rods provides an equal potential between the two.

This is the NEC requirement as I understand it. Correct?
 
n3ntj said:
So another ground rod is required in the approx. area of the dish and coax grounding block? Both get bonded to it with at least a 10 AWG copper.
Click to expand...
No, another ground rod is not required.

The mast, usually a bent steel tube with a 4-point swiveling attachment base, and the shield of the coax (via a grounding block or "switch") get bonded to the electric service grounding system with a minimum #10 copper, #8 aluminum, or #17 copper-clad steel or bronze conductor.

However, if one does drive another ground rod it has to be bonded to the electric service grounding system with a minimum #6 copper conductor. This moves the point for bonding to the electrical service grounding system closer, but at an added expense and labor. Quite simply, it is a trade-off for a better grounding system for both the dish and electric service.
 
Follow Up

Follow Up

See illustration in this DISH Network publication (PDF). The depicted antenna discharge unit is the grounding block or "switch". Note the depicted two runs of grounding conductors. They are typically bonded together at the block or switch as only one grounding conductor to the electric service grounding system is required [810.21(I)].
 
Ungrounded DirecTV Dish System?

Hi Smart $

I thought another ground rod bonded to the main electrical service ground was required (as I described below) if the dish and grounding block for the coax was more than 30' from the main electrical service entrance and its ground rod.

That is the situation in the DirecTV installation I found. The dish is on one side of the home and the electrical service entrance and its ground are on the opposite side of the home.

Now I am confused.
 
n3ntj,
I thought another ground rod bonded to the main electrical service ground was required (as I described below) if the dish and grounding block for the coax was more than 30' from the main electrical service entrance and its ground rod.
Click to expand...
I don't find any such requirement in the code section that applies...810.21.
There is a 20' maximum in 800.100 for phones and in 820.100 for cable TV systems.
Don
Don
 
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