ungrounded receptacle

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tj234

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406.3(D)(3)(a) says a nongrounding-type recept can be replaced with another nongrounding-type recept.
250.130(C) seems to say that an additional nongrounding-type recept cannot be added on to an existing nongrounding-type recept.
Would this be correct, or am I misinterpreting this?
 
Re: ungrounded receptacle

You are correct. To add to an exsisting non-grounding receptacle circuit, you must add grounding type receptacles only. The methods are listed in both references.
 
Re: ungrounded receptacle

Ok, thanks Dave. I work commercial (new construction mostly) and am not too familiar with this type of situation. It seemed like a lot of work for an existing installation, so I thought I might have been missing something.
 
Re: ungrounded receptacle

Dave
There are still a large amount of homes in our area that have no grounding means available at the box. In this case, a nongrounding type receptacle is permitted to be installed at that location. 406.3(D)(3)(a)

Pierre
 
Re: ungrounded receptacle

A thought occurred to me. Is it permitted to replace a non-grounding type receptacle with a grounding type even if the ground is not grounded or does this raise issue with the false implication of a grounded receptacle?

If so, why are non-grounding type receptacles still available? Are there applications where these are permitted or even preferred?

Just curious.

Bob
 
Re: ungrounded receptacle

Bob,
If you have a grounded type receptacle it must either have an EGC connection or be GFCI protected and marked "no equipment ground".
Don
 
Re: ungrounded receptacle

Non grounded receptacles exist so that a receptacle in an older house (without grounds) can be replaced without having to violate code or install a GFCI.
 
Re: ungrounded receptacle

Can I take this a step further? Here's the scenario. You're adding a new receptacle in an older house where the old receptacles have no means for grounding.
I was thinking you could add this on and just install a GFI. But after rereading 406.3, it seems that the GFI option is only for replacement of recepts, not extensions. So wouldn't you have to go with 250.130(C), which requires running an egc back to the grounding electrode system?
 
Re: ungrounded receptacle

I think it is interesting that the code allows the installation of grounding type outlets where no grounding means exists.

Don R. brought another code article to my attention that basically means we can install that grounding type outlet but no grounding type equipment can be plugged into it.

How does the homeowner know this? :D
 
Re: ungrounded receptacle

Dave,
Yes, 250.114. The items on that list cannot be plugged into a receptacle that does not include an EGC, even if the receptacle has GFCI protection.
Don
 
Re: ungrounded receptacle

Dave put in the GFCI outlet with no grounding means and the sticker that says so.

Code compliant. :)

Plug in any of the equipment listed in 250.114 into that outlet.

Code violation. :eek:
 
Re: ungrounded receptacle

Rule "6". The rule beyond the N.E.C.
1. Replace non-grounding recept with same only.
2. Never extend an existing non-grounded circuit.
This is one reason why non-grounding recept still exists. "Grandfather Clause" protects Homeowners from having all wires ripped out of their house. As long as the old "Knob & Tube" is protected,it can stay.
Check in your area to see what your "Rules" are. Remember the code book is the minimum code across the U.S.A. Each area can have add-ons.
 
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