ungrounded sub panels

[wire monk]

Looked at a job today that the inspector passed residential .. 400 amp meter socket on the bldg. with two disconnets attached to the meter socket and ground rod below for supplemental grd. A ground wire run to the water pipe within 5' of the entrance of the bldg. But this is what I feel is wrong and it passed. From the disconnects to the two panels inside the home the people ran 3 wires service entrance cable no ground. 2 hot and one nuetral . Does it say that a sub panel does not need to be grounded any place in the code????
They also did not seperate the grounds and Neutrals in the sub panels

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Once you leave the main disconnect everything must have a ground wire. The sub panel is in violation. I guess if you are going to be in violation you would have to put the grounds and neutrals together. That is safer than separating them if there is no grounding conductor.

 

[LarryFine]

From the disconnects to the two panels inside the home the people ran 3 wires service entrance cable no ground.

Definitely non-compliant. It should not have passed.

They also did not seperate the grounds and Neutrals in the sub panels

Ditto. But, that's better than floating either group.

 

[papa]

Are the disconnects fused?

 

[B4T]

I came across a 60 amp sub-panel today being fed with 6/3-G. I had a missing ground on an outlet I changed... missing ground. Turns out EC ran 6/3 plain from main panel and spliced it somewhere. House is on a slab.. can I drive a ground rod to fix the missing EGC??

 

[wire monk]

disconnects are 2 pole breakers

 

[papa]

OK, reason I ask is 4' th wire is required after 1'st point of overcurrent protection .

 

[benaround]

I came across a 60 amp sub-panel today being fed with 6/3-G. I had a missing ground on an outlet I changed... missing ground. Turns out EC ran 6/3 plain from main panel and spliced it somewhere. House is on a slab.. can I drive a ground rod to fix the missing EGC??

Absolutly NOT, no , a ground rod will not clear a fault and can not be used as an EGC.

 

[LarryFine]

can I drive a ground rod to fix the missing EGC??

Absolutely not.

 

[LarryFine]

OK, reason I ask is 4' th wire is required after 1'st point of overcurrent protection .

No, after first disconnecting means, fused or not.

 

[quogueelectric]

Thats a big NO!!!!

 

[TOOL_5150]

I had to replace a feeder becuase of that same reason just today - friday of course.

Was supposed to be a simple FPE 100A sub panel change out. I get there, pull the cover give it a once over and see 3 cores and no ground in the feeder. Old cloth covered aluminum. Had to run to big orange and get some 2/3 romex and replace the feed. My apprentice pulled out and put in the feeder while I did the panel work. Here is a cruddy cell phone pic of the final project. Ended up going into OT because noone told me the feed was not to code.

~Matt