Unique Main Bonding Jumper situation in North Dakota

[Mkinney]

I have a unique situation here in North Dakota I would like you all to weigh in on. I have a 480 V service feeding a number of disconnects. The meter socket provided by the utility has a busbar installed to work as the main bonding jumper. I am being told i need to provide an additional grounded conductor to the main service disconnect located downstream and place the main bonding jumper in that location. There are two reasons I do not wish to do so. 1. If I place the main bonding jumper in that location I now need to remove the connection within the meter socket shown in the photo. Secondly as I have no use for the grounded conductor ( I am not using any 277 Loads) I believe this ruling to be in Error. If in fact I do provide the additional conductor I now have to isolate the grounded conductor within the meter enclosure to avoid a second bond. Has anyone else run into this?

 

[Mkinney]

I have a unique situation here in North Dakota I would like you all to weigh in on. I have a 480 V service feeding a number of disconnects. The meter socket provided by the utility has a busbar installed to work as the main bonding jumper. I am being told i need to provide an additional grounded conductor to the main service disconnect located downstream and place the main bonding jumper in that location. There are two reasons I do not wish to do so. 1. If I place the main bonding jumper in that location I now need to remove the connection within the meter socket shown in the photo. Secondly as I have no use for the grounded conductor ( I am not using any 277 Loads) I believe this ruling to be in Error. If in fact I do provide the additional conductor I now have to isolate the grounded conductor within the meter enclosure to avoid a second bond. Has anyone else run into this?

I would also like to note that in North Dakota it is required by North Dakota Regulations that the Main bonding jumper be located in the first Service Disconnect. My take on this is, that in this application I do not require a bonding jumper as there is no grounded conductor there to bond to.

 

[luckylerado]

Is the bonding bar accessible once the meter is installed and the POCO installs their lock? Is there a disconnect on this meter? You must bond in the service disconnect and you are allowed to do so even though there is a bonding bar installed on the line side of the service equipment.



BTW, those raceways look way over full.

 

[Mkinney]

Thanks for reply

Thanks for reply

The Meter is locked and belongs to Utility. The State Inspector has stated he wants the Bond removed from within the meter socket which I agree with if I am bonding in the service disconnect, I also agree you must in fact have the bond in the Service Disconnect ( Per North Dakota Regs) but my point is that would only be true if you had a grounded conductor to bond to. In this case there is no bonded conductor , so I am now going to have to install one. You did raise a good point though, I may just place another disconnect along side of the meter socket and install the bond there if this is really something guys are doing. Thanks again for your response.

 

[texie]

The Meter is locked and belongs to Utility. The State Inspector has stated he wants the Bond removed. What is the benefit of bonding an unused grounding conductor?

I think there is not a thorough understanding of the requirements of Art. 250 by the inspector or you as you are both wrong on a number of counts here. For starters look at 250.24, 250.80. In addition there are a number of other violations noted. When you have a service supplied by a grounded system there is no such thing as "I have no use for the neutral" even though you have no line to neutral load.

 

[luckylerado]

...that would only be true if you had a grounded conductor to bond to.....

It is still a grounded system hence the grounded conductor in the service drop. The grounded conductor must be installed whether you use it or not. Your AHJ probably has no jurisdiction over the bonding within the meter enclosure.

250.24(C)

(C) Grounded Conductor Brought to Service Equipment.
Where an ac system operating at 1000 volts or less is
grounded at any point, the grounded conductor(s) shall be routed
with the ungrounded conductors t o each service disconnecting
means and shall be connected to each disconnecting means
grounded conductor(s) terminal or bus. A main bonding jumper
shall connect the grounded conductor(s) to each service disconnecting
means enclosure. The grounded conductor(s) shall be
installed in accordance with 250.24(C)(1) through (C)(4).

 

[fmtjfw]

I believe bonding that occurs in the meter socket does not preclude bonding in the main disconnect. I'd be willing to bet that the neutral lug is permanently bonding to the cabinet by design. This does not require you to split the grounding and grounded conductors at that point. Depending on the POCO rules you may or may not or must or must not connect the GEC in the meter socket.

 

[roger]

As already stated, there is no limit or NEC rule on how many times the Neutral can be bonded ahead of the Service Equipment and the inspector should be aware of this.

Regardless of what takes place ahead of the service equipment the Neutral must be brought to the service equipment to clear faults per the aforementioned 250.24(C)

Roger

 

[Mkinney]

Thank You!

Thank You!

Thank You I stand corrected I missed that. You guys are awesome thank you for the help. What I will do is place a disconnect at that location and establish the main bond there. PS, this install was not performed by my staff FYI, we are cleaning it up. Just wanted it noted.

 

[cpinetree]

Is the lug that has the 3 bare copper stranded conductors connecting the bonding bushings listed for use that way?

Is it OK because if twisted together the circumference would be the same as if it was a single stranded conductor versus having 3 conductors in a lug designed for a single conductor?

Questioning for my own understanding.

 

[augie47]

Is the lug that has the 3 bare copper stranded conductors connecting the bonding bushings listed for use that way?

Is it OK because if twisted together the circumference would be the same as if it was a single stranded conductor versus having 3 conductors in a lug designed for a single conductor?

Questioning for my own understanding.

It would not be allowed in this jurisdiction unless it could be verified that it is listed for three conductors (which is extremely doubtful)

 

[kwired]

That meter cabinet is not the service disconnecting means, it is just an enclosure containing service conductors. It does need to be bonded to the grounded conductor, as does any other metal enclosure or raceway on the supply side of the service disconnecting means.

The service disconnecting means doesn't need to be at/near this meter either, it can be adjacent to or can be hundreds of feet away - you still do things the same way.

Whether you need a neutral or not for any supplied loads - if you have a grounded system, you still must bring the grounded conductor all the way to the service disconnecting means and install the main bonding jumper there.