Unqualified Inspector

[magoo66]

About 5 or 6 years ago my state cut the local AHJ position and mandated that each county government hire their own inspector. Since then we have suffered from "low bid syndrome". This guy has NEVER worn tools, is a retired fuse salesman with an EE degree. How/if he ever passed the state exam is beyond me. In my new job with the POCO, I have to send linemen out to hook up some of the garbage that he approves. Usually not to bad when the work is done by an electrician, but most of the "home-owner" projects......OMG!
I have griped all the way up the chain of command to no avail, appears the county is happy with the guy (generating revenue).
Getting tired of hearing "Well the electrical inspector said it was OK"
Got any suggestions?

 

[redfish]

Re: Unqualified Inspector

Have your regional manager set up a meeting with the county,around here POCO has a lot of pull. It's always good to have them on your side. Besides, the POCO owns the power, the county doesn't, so if they don't want to connect, they don't have to.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Unqualified Inspector

If the guy is as bad as you say he is, then you must not be the only one experiencing these problems. You can almost never get these situations handled on your own.

Do you have any trade organizations or assoications that can approach the problem as a committee instead as just one or two individuals? Mant times, this will get peoples attention over just a few random complaints. I don't know how it is in your jurisdiction, but the inspectors here are employed by the city or county, but only under the approval of the city or county commissioners. These persons have many meetings during the year in which the public can make comments or raise issues involving the building departments and code enforcement.

 

[magoo66]

Re: Unqualified Inspector

Thats part of the problem....most of the trades are happy with him....they never receive corrections. But he is becoming a hazard in my opinion. I can only catch the ones in my POCO service area.

 

[magoo66]

Re: Unqualified Inspector

May be barking up the wrong tree. New boss is the POCO engineering manager. Asked me to sign off some electrical work that he had done to one of his rental properties.

 

[paul]

Re: Unqualified Inspector

Does the state still have guidelines that the counties must follow to become an inspector? Like having been in the field for X amount of years as an electrician? You may want to check that out in your state administrative rules.

Goodluck

 

[inspector 102]

Re: Unqualified Inspector

What type of issues is the inspector passing that you are not happy with? As an inspector, he can only enforce those issues that are covered under the adopted code. I have run into issues that the POCO wants, that are not addressed in the code and I inform the electrician that I can approve the install for code, but the POCO will not connect it for non-compliance with their standards (meter height, riser sizing, etc.). A discussion with both to discuss an approval guideline certainly goes a long way in joint inspection situations.

 

[petersonra]

Re: Unqualified Inspector

not to beat a dead horse, but is your real problem with the inspector that he approves HO projects that might not meet your personal standards?

The only really important thing is does the install meet the code requirements in your county. thats all he is responsible for.

Like other posters have said, I would be inclined to think that if there is a problem with this guy, other people would have noticed it as well. If there is a problem, perhaps a chat with him in a non-confrontational way might best serve the purpose improving his inspections, if there is in fact a problem.

It might be that the county told him to only inspect certain things. I know that has happened in this area a few times, and not just with electrical inspectors. If that is the case, your quarrel might well be with the county and not this guy. that's why i think a non-controntational chat is in order.

I don't think you are the guy to do the chat thing though, based on the tone of your post.

 

[bthielen]

Re: Unqualified Inspector

Ditto to Bob's comments.

It sounds as though you may be annoyed by the fact that HOs are doing work that in your opinion they may not be qualified to do or perhaps your pride has been bruised because the inspector doesn't have more experience than you. Funny thing about opinions. They don't mean that I'm right and you're wrong, they are only opinions.

For all practical purposes I can't help but believe that for the most part electricians, electrical contractors, and inspectors are good people that are truly concerned about electrical safety and they endorse electrical codes at the heart. With that said, I can't believe that any inspector could continually pass HO projects with disregard for safety and the code without being put under a microscope. I think HOs deserve more credit too. The fact that they have their work inspected attests that they too generally speaking desire that their work is done safely and they probably have some idea of what the code expects.

The point is, wait until you are cooled down before you decide to have a conversation with the inspector. You haven't cited any specific code violations that have been intentionally overlooked by this inspector so he may be more competent than you are making him out to be.

Bob

 

[charlie b]

Re: Unqualified Inspector

Originally posted by petersonra:. . . I would be inclined to think that if there is a problem with this guy, other people would have noticed it as well.

Originally posted by bthielen:. . . I can't believe that any inspector could continually pass HO projects with disregard for safety and the code without being put under a microscope.

Consider this: The NEC rules are safety rules. To violate an NEC rule is to create a safety hazard. But when, if ever, will that safety hazard become a tragedy? Perhaps never!

As an example, suppose a homeowner runs a new circuit to a single receptacle serving a new wet bar in the basement, using #14 AWG and a 20 amp breaker. Suppose further that the only thing that is ever plugged into that receptacle is a fridge that draws only 10 amps. Is it a code violation? Yes. Is it a potential safety hazard? Yes. Will it burn up the house? No. Should the Inspector have allowed this installation? No. Will anyone ever become aware of the Inspector's failure to fail this installation? No. Will the Inspector approve another installation just like this one, with nobody noticing the failure? Yes. Will the Inspector ever be put under a microscope? No.

But then . . . . The homeowner sells the house. The new owner plugs in a bigger fridge, and the house burns down. Will the blame for the error find its way back to the proper person (the Inspector)? No.

Do we need to find a way to get the person educated or fired? You tell me.

 

[petersonra]

Re: Unqualified Inspector

It all really hinges on what the real problem with the guy is.

If he is passing unsafe installations, he needs to be "talked" to about it.

If he is passing installations that are safe but not to the original posters personal preferences, thats something the Op will need to get over.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but your example of putting a 20A CB on a #14 wire seems highly unlikely to ever cause a fire. It is overloaded per the code, but there is so much fudge factor built in to the system at those size wires, that the chance of it causing a fire seems very remote.

 

[bthielen]

Re: Unqualified Inspector

Charlie,

I wasn't trying to side with the inspector. I do sense a certain amount of animosity toward this inspector by magoo66. Based on the one-sided information we have received and the fact that he has yet to describe any specific code violations that this inspector blatantly allowed, it just sounds like he doesn't feel as though the work being performed is up to his standard, which may be higher than the code.

I also am on the same boat with Mr. Peterson that if this inspector is intentionally allowing below standard work or is incompetent then I would have to believe that other electricians would have noticed this already and raised their voices.

I say this because I believe that most electricians do care and will not allow an incompetent inspector to continue unchecked. Or am I wrong and most electricians are really only in it for the $ and passing inspections easily is more important to them?

Bob

 

[peter d]

Re: Unqualified Inspector

I too am curious to hear some specific examples that would make this inspector "unqualified."

Originally posted by bthielen:
Or am I wrong and most electricians are really only in it for the $ and passing inspections easily is more important to them?

Bob

I will answer this question simply by saying that human nature is human nature.

I follow the 10/80/10 rule in life. Out of a group of 100 electricians, 10 will be standouts in the the trade, 80 will be the "status quo" type who just get by with what they know, and 10 will be incompetent hacks. So far that formula hasn't proved to be incorrect.

 

[arjo_reich]

Re: Unqualified Inspector

Originally posted by peter d:
I follow the 10/80/10 rule in life. Out of a group of 100 electricians, 10 will be standouts in the the trade, 80 will be the "status quo" type who just get by with what they know, and 10 will be incompetent hacks. So far that formula hasn't proved to be incorrect.

+/- 6 Sigma, of course...

<grins, ducks, and runs like hell...

 

[charlie b]

Re: Unqualified Inspector

Originally posted by bthielen: Charlie, I wasn't trying to side with the inspector.

I know that. I just saw another opportunity for me to promote my campaign against the "It's not been a problem before, so it must be OK" way of thinking.

Originally posted by petersonra: Not to put too fine a point on it, but your example of putting a 20A CB on a #14 wire seems highly unlikely to ever cause a fire.

You're right, of course. Perhaps not the best example, but all I wanted to do is to present an example.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Unqualified Inspector

i have had stood toe to toe with many inspectors.Sometimes they win most times I do.If I am going to stand toe to toe with a guy that will inspect 1000`s of my jobs over his/mine future. You better believe my ducks are lined up so pretty If I miss the defect on final it will come back to haunt me and the inspector on rough is on my butt.I want no AHJ there We all have a job to do and go home

 

[magoo66]

Re: Unqualified Inspector

Sorry, I lost track of this post....been working late.
My AHJ is one of the nicest guys I know, dottering old man in his 70's. He has called me probably every other week for the last 5 years to look at mostly DIY installs. That has been quite an experience in itself. As for things that the linemen have refused to hook up (that were approved by the AHJ): service conductors landed on the POCO side of the meter socket, overhead service strikes within reach of opening windows, no grounded conductor in service, PVC through the roof overhead attachment points.....And these are some of the ones that the LINEMEN caught....no offence intended to the HV guys.
Peter, I think your 10/80/10 rule is right on the money

 

[charlie]

Re: Unqualified Inspector

dottering old man in his 70's

Since I am 63 next month, I really don't like that statement (that's assuming you are talking about someone in his dotage).

 

[augie47]

Re: Unqualified Inspector

DOTTERING???

 

[charlie b]

Re: Unqualified Inspector

I've met some men who had hit their dotage at age 25. I met them sixty years later, when they were still teaching the same college classes.