Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

joe tedesco · Aug 10, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

OK, Thanks How Does this sound??

110.12(D) Defective Discontinued Electrical Equipment

(1) Where accessible, unused defective and damaged, or obsolete electrical equipment, shall be removed from service and discarded.

(2) Discontinued electrical equipment shall be permanently tagged as being discontinued at all terminations and junction points. All discontinued conductors shall be removed from their terminations, and all free ends of conductors shall be covered with an insulation equivalent to that of the conductors.

FPN: Obsolete Equipment is equipment that does not meet current electrical testing standards or the requirements of this Code.

ryan_618 · Aug 10, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

Joe, looking in the Webster's dictionary I see that obsolete is synonymous with unused. For that reason, I would say view the last three posts on the subject. Again, I like the spirit of this propsosal, but I don't like the language and I don't like the interpretations and judgements that would come along with it. Also, if we are to change the definition of a word, such as obsolete, I think it needs to be in article 100 as a definition, not as a fine print note. If not, I suggest proposing two proposals, one as a definition to be inserted directly before your proposal to establish a scope.

frenchelectrican · Aug 10, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

joe and bob and all you guys and ladys here :

anyway i wondering why not change the "obsolete" to antique and i think it is more proper to use it in the nec code and i belive it can help to enforce it and ajh inspecter can call it antique if nessecery

i intercounter alot of antique equpiments and they were not even tagged to be not in use or anything at all and quite few older equpiment do have "update" items that can meet the nec codes then we will have no probem with it

just my thought

merci marc

charlie · Aug 10, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

You already know my stand on the subject. However, take a look at what you are writing and remember all the past comments about why the Code language is written where it is so hard to understand. You are going through just exactly what a Code Making Panel goes through.

joe tedesco · Aug 11, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

OK, Thanks again How Does this sound instead??

110.12(D) Defective and Damaged Electrical Equipment.

Defective and damaged electrical equipment shall be removed from service and discarded.

Thanks Charlie, this is a good example of what the committees have to go through when discussing a proposal, especially when there are some that take quite a while to complete.

This is why there is a comment process and that gives us all a chance to let our views be known.

charlie · Aug 11, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

Originally posted by Joe Tedesco:
110.12(D) Defective and Damaged Electrical Equipment.
Defective and damaged electrical equipment shall be removed from service and discarded.

HMMM, does this mean that if it is defective but not damaged, it does not have to be removed?

vanwalker · Aug 11, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

I totally agree-- if not used it must be removed--hoping that something that is not mentioned in the NEC is used COMMON SENSE .In these forums there seems to be a problem with others (AHJ or inspectors) being responsible and making a ruling, much of the time they were picked by YOU. GEO

ryan_618 · Aug 11, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

How about: defective or damaged.
Or: defective or damaged and irreperable

don_resqcapt19 · Aug 11, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

So there is no option to repair the damaged equipment? It must be replaced? I think that is excessive. Thats like saying if you break you windshield, you have to get a new car.
Don

joe tedesco · Aug 11, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

Some good suggestions and points, how about this?

110.12(D) Defective or Damaged Electrical Equipment.

Defective or damaged electrical equipment shall replaced or repaired, or shall be removed from service and discarded.

[ August 11, 2003, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: joe tedesco ]

don_resqcapt19 · Aug 11, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

Joe,
Now we need a code definition of "damaged". Is chipped paint damage? A dent in the side of the enclosure?
Don

charlie · Aug 11, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

Joe, I think it is time to let this one die a quiet death. If not here, I think it will die in the panel meetings.

joe tedesco · Aug 11, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

charlie:

I still have about 100 more replies to go!

Please as a Moderator sit this one out so that others with the same type of problems can say something too.

Don:

I can show you electrical equipment that has been damaged in driveways, when the direction of traffic has changed, and on almost every othre street corner. Damaged could related to equipment that was allowed to remain with no maintenance for many years.

charlie · Aug 11, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

Joe, you hurt me.

ryan_618 · Aug 11, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

Don, I don't think we need a definition of the word "damaged". How long has the phrase "succeptable to damage" been in the code? I would think that phrase causes more interprative issues than the one Joe is proposing.
I don't have the 2002 NEC on cd-rom, but in the 1999 the word damaged is used 26 without a definition, and it is pretty obvious what the intent of those articles is. The word damage is used 192 times without definition.

don_resqcapt19 · Aug 11, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

ryan,
Just be cause a word is used in the code doesn't mean its not vague and unenforceable.
Don

jxofaltrds · Aug 11, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

Damaged

Sounds like some of the "feelings" here. Does the mean they have to be removed?

Mike P.

frenchelectrican · Aug 11, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

or add this word "destroyed" or say "despaired equimpent" i think one of two words can make it better for next cycle of NEC code but really like the latter one say despaired it can really use the word more proper way insted of destroyed but destroyed can be repaired but despaired mean useless so i think it can fit the word better

if that good one that willbe a good move to use it if not that allright i just try my best in here

merci marc

lrollo · Aug 12, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

I believe any unused equipment or abondoned equipment should be demo-ed out. Why leave it there to possibly confuse someone in an emergency? Also most of the stuff in these pictures look like #&@%&. Why not do a good job and get it out of there? Neatness counts. Wouldnt removing it also fall under the statement in the code "a neat, workmanship like manner"?

Sorry, I removed a word that some may find offensive. I don't think I changed the intent of the statement. Charlie

[ August 12, 2003, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: charlie ]

lrollo · Aug 20, 2003

Re: Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

Thanks Charlie. No problem with the change.

Unused Electrical Equipment Shall be Removed!

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