And you are not a Yank, arrogant or otherwise, if you are from the Mason-Dixon line.
Remind me of where CA is?
Unusual Question - Powering a single phase panel with 120 Volts
- Thread starter sheldonrf
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Remind me of where CA is?
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
CA is west of the Mason-Dixon Line and has parts both North and South of that line segment. It was, IIRC, not yet a state when the line was drawn.And you are not a Yank, arrogant or otherwise, if you are from the Mason-Dixon line.
Remind me of where CA is?
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- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer
California was fought over in Congress and entered the US as a "Free" state in 1850 (a decade before the war broke out) even though the majority of the land mass was technically below the Mason-Dixon line (if it were to be extended that far west). It's actually a major issue that angered the Southern States. In 1861 right before the war broke out there was a move to split California into two states at an extension of the line, which would have put the split somewhere north of Sacramento, meaning almost ALL of the known gold fields would be in SoCal. The Arizona Territory, which at the time included what is now Utah, was actually part of the Confederacy as a result of the same movement and slavery was allowed as part of the Compromise of 1860. Fears that California would split and there would be a Confederate state in the California gold fields that might serve to finance the Confederacy led to Alcatraz Prison starting out life as a Union fort, armed with cannon to guard the Golden Gate from Confederate ships.And you are not a Yank, arrogant or otherwise, if you are from the Mason-Dixon line.
Remind me of where CA is?
We are "Yanks".
Or septics according to one of my guys - sort of pseudo Cockney rhyming slang.
Anyway, thank you for the history lesson but we are rather wandering off topic and that often doesn't sit well with the mods don'tcha know.....
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
Or septics according to one of my guys - sort of pseudo Cockney rhyming slang.
Anyway, thank you for the history lesson but we are rather wandering off topic and that often doesn't sit well with the mods don'tcha know.....
To quote Alfred E. Neuman, "What, me worry?"
brantmacga
Señor Member
- Location
- Georgia
- Occupation
- Former Child
Unusual Question - Powering a single phase panel with 120 Volts
Typically called “isolated” ground..... you’ll see either an orange receptacle with a green triangle, or any other color receptacle with an orange triangle on the face.
Coincidentally, I did a service call yesterday at a bank involving some IG circuits without power. I opened the panel checking breakers and found this ..... this is pretty common for me to find, and certainly not how you do an IG;
They taped the “IG” grounds black, and connected them to this ground bar in a sub-panel. They also connected this ground to the bonding jumper at the device box, which is also incorrect.
They should have been connected to a lifted ground bar, and as this is #12, it should’ve had a tracer stripe in the insulation instead of tape.
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Typically called “isolated” ground..... you’ll see either an orange receptacle with a green triangle, or any other color receptacle with an orange triangle on the face.
Coincidentally, I did a service call yesterday at a bank involving some IG circuits without power. I opened the panel checking breakers and found this ..... this is pretty common for me to find, and certainly not how you do an IG;
They taped the “IG” grounds black, and connected them to this ground bar in a sub-panel. They also connected this ground to the bonding jumper at the device box, which is also incorrect.
They should have been connected to a lifted ground bar, and as this is #12, it should’ve had a tracer stripe in the insulation instead of tape.
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Okay, I'm gonna be the sacrificial dumb guy and ask you what this is. A "lifted ground bar"? We used to just run them all the way back to the service isolated through any intervening sub-panels. No one seems to want them (isolated ground circuits) anymore.
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
A "lifted ground bar" is a bar which is insulated from the neutral and from the normal EGC and the enclosure metal. That is, it has been "lifted" away from ground. If you use an accessory ground bar for this purpose you might have to modify it to remove contact with the enclosure. Or you can use a neutral bar, which is normally insulated, and designate it for Isolated Ground instead.
It is arguable whether the code allows this sort of combining of isolated ground anywhere downstream of the main panel, though.
brantmacga
Señor Member
- Location
- Georgia
- Occupation
- Former Child
I’ve yet to find a manufacturer that doesn’t offer isolating blocks for the ground bar; it’s basically a neutral bar.
Also, you don’t combine IG’s and EGC’s. EGC still bonds to the can. That picture above just shows how to not do it.
Our customers typically want a sub-panel for IG circuits. So you have a grounding bar and an isolated bar. Each conduit gets both an EGC and IG ground.
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Also, you don’t combine IG’s and EGC’s. EGC still bonds to the can. That picture above just shows how to not do it.
Our customers typically want a sub-panel for IG circuits. So you have a grounding bar and an isolated bar. Each conduit gets both an EGC and IG ground.
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In which case , if metal conduit is used, is one more conductor pulled than needed.
JAP>
brantmacga
Señor Member
- Location
- Georgia
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- Former Child
AdamTeeScott
Member
- Location
- Louisville, KY
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
So, any reason a 20/20 tandem breaker won’t work?
#keepitsimple
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Can't share a grounded conductor.
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