Update on attic GFI

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

dcooper

Senior Member
Location
Ma
So I told the home owner they are mis informed and I wanted the electricains name and number....because...well because he's an idiot! And I had to get the number from the contractor. He never answered. I explained to the home owner I was going to speak with the inspector beacuse they claimed HE DID A POOR JOB INSPECTING. I also told them that I was going to use the other electricains name to the inspector..... they asked me not to... I insisted and the contractor asked me not to. (I work for the contractor. I signed the contract with him. He pays me.)
So then I was asked about one more code violation.........If you add an outlet to an existing cir. do you have to make it arc fault?
I have had this argument with several inspectors. I say no. And 50% of the inspectors agree and 50% don't. I say 210 is branch cir. And the wording says 'branch cir installed' my thoughts are I am already using an installed branch cir.
The contractor payed me to put the arc fault in beacuse I told him I wasn't and THE INSPECTOR ALREADY SIGNED OFF ON THE JOB!....
So am I in violation" Is this interpetation? Or am I wrong?
 
cmon... it's been a long day just got out of the shower.....doing my emails help a fellow electricain out. What's it say?
 
ok but..... here is my point.
It's not devices we are talking about it's branch cir. and installing a branch cir. The branch cir is already installed.
So you think by adding outlets that increases the magnitude of the existing violation?
 
So did the HO pay you ? Or do they have to consult with a telephone psychic first ?
 
the intent of rule three is to insure that new installtions do not envoke altering the rest of the existing wires the NEC nor the MEC is retroactive. but it also restricts creating a violaion of the code that governs the permit granted for the present work


If the entire BC that is extended can not be protected IAW the present Code (AFCI)then the extension should be made independent of existing wiring, and IAW 210.12 to conform with code changes t
 
dcooper said:
So then I was asked about one more code violation.........If you add an outlet to an existing cir. do you have to make it arc fault?
Click to expand...

No you don't have to make what is already there AFCI protected.

But the new work from start to finish must meet todays code so that new circuit wiring must be AFCI protected. How you accomplish that is left up to you.

I say 210 is branch cir. And the wording says 'branch cir installed' my thoughts are I am already using an installed branch cir.
Click to expand...

I am reading 210.12(B) from the 2008 NEC and I don't see anything like that. Here is what I see.

210.12(B) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family rooms, living roo....,

Notice it says all branch circuits that supply outlets installed in.

If you install any 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere outlet in any of the rooms listed it must be supplied by a arc fault protected circuit.
 
dcooper said:
So then I was asked about one more code violation.........If you add an outlet to an existing cir. do you have to make it arc fault?
I have had this argument with several inspectors. I say no.
Click to expand...

They have you on this one. There is no argument to have you have to afci this new outlet.

I don't see why you rae in a battle with these people. They sound like jerks but you should be dealing with the person you signed a contract with which you say is the gc.

There has to be more to this story.
 
Hendrix said:
What if the outlet is part of a miltiwire branch circuit? You can't AFCI it.
Click to expand...
Yes you can. They make a DP arc fault. That works on a MWBC. Besides you need to figure all that into the equation before you install an outlet.
 
I have a local inspector who will pass a non AFCI outlet installed on an existing
non protected branch circuit ,.. full disclosure this is a crime I have committed myself.

The problem is to do it by the book in god O'le New England can add hundreds of dollars to the cost of the outlet depending on the state of the service equipment .This makes it hard to get the job and easier to lower moral threshold.

Could rule #3 come to mean that there must be no violations in the service equipment in order to add a circuit of any kind????
 
[
Could rule #3 come to mean that there must be no violations in the service equipment in order to add a circuit of any kind????[/QUOTE]


this is an interesting statement butr I don't follow??

I do not believe that there is a specific requirement restricting a tap from an existing load center to new one which will accomadate AFCI where needed.


Or have I missed your point?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top