UPS Neutral Help

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Hi, I am adding x4 UPS single phase 5.3kw to a newly renovated server room. Having some concerns about the neutral sizing to compensate for high order harmonincs. Overheating of the neutral is also an issue due to the harmonics. Wondering how much to oversize or what adjustments to avoid difficulties. The manufacture makes no mention of any neutral pitfalls. The units are Best Power Ferrups, wondering how others feel about these units and/or ideas. Also see post titled "Server Room Grounding". Thanks.
 

dereckbc

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Plano, TX
Re: UPS Neutral Help

If the manufacture is Invensys, I think it is, they make the best UPS product IMHO.

If it is a single phase 120 VAC fed unit, the neutral is required to be the same size as the phase conductor. If possible I would use 208 or 240 input connection (no neutral involved).

The only place to be concerned with a neutral is at the transformer supplying the single phase circuits on a poly-phase system.
 
Re: UPS Neutral Help

The previous post talks about neutral harmonic concerns. The single phase UPS units were going to be used on a single polyphase transformer which sounds like something to avoid! Guess a class K transformer would be an option.

Powerware, Best Power and Invensys seam to be related from doing searches. I have delt with Richard Pring @ majorpower.com on many smaller projects and cannot recommend him highly enough! Powerware offers a 30KVA 480V/208V 3 phase UPS that will offer a few advantages over the multiple single phase. A 480v Drop is close. Eliminated Neutral loading worries.

So,I can feed the UPS 480V. Come out 208V to a subpanel. Keep my grounds and neutrals centralized in a single panel. A Transfer Switch could be installed to transfer load to main panel for maint. or failure. Haven't looked into BTU comparisons.

Should I be concerned with EMI/RFI or magnetic fields created around such a unit? We will be re-installing an Avaya phone system that currently is not stable from static or ground noise that will be installed in the same area. Is there a recommended minimum interference distance around such equipment?

Also looking for a TVSS to protect branch circuits (200A 3Phase 208V). Are there special or desired features to look for? Ratings to watch out for? Any thoughts or ideas would be helpfull. I would like to thank dereck for all his wisdom and helfullness on this and other postings.
 

dereckbc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Plano, TX
Re: UPS Neutral Help

Originally posted by audiocableguy:
Should I be concerned with EMI/RFI or magnetic fields created around such a unit? We will be re-installing an Avaya phone system that currently is not stable from static or ground noise that will be installed in the same area. Is there a recommended minimum interference distance around such equipment?

Also looking for a TVSS to protect branch circuits (200A 3Phase 208V). Are there special or desired features to look for? Ratings to watch out for? Any thoughts or ideas would be helpfull. I would like to thank dereck for all his wisdom and helfullness on this and other postings.
If you are buying a Invensys UPS or any other quality unit EMI/RFI should not be a problem. Just keep your PBX 5 to 10 feet away from the UPS and do not rund the USP cables around the PBX and vice versa.

If you are installing the TVSS devices on the output side of the UPS you are probably waisting money as a dual conversion UPS outperforms any TVSS you can purchase. TVSS is really an engineering function. If properly sized, installed, and located correctly they offer adequate protection, but are not the best devices to use for surge protection. But things to look for are hybrid devices that use SAD's as the primary protector and MOV's as secondary protectors. Look for UL-1499 SVR rating of 400 volts or less and tested per ANSI C62.41 C3 waveform impulses. Avoid units that use the words "Joules" or "amps per phase" as they mean nothing other than hype.

The best TVSS protectors are the ones built into the main panel and sub-panels as they use "Kelvin Clamp" methods. Most add on devices are rendered useless by the installation. It is almost impossible to keep the leads from the unit to the panel breaker shorter than 6 inches.
 
Re: UPS Neutral Help

Thanks dereck for the Surge Protect info. I am looking to protect a Sub Panel that feeds all of the duplex outlets in the office section of the building. Majorpower.com has add-on protection however I want to look into all options.

The 5.3KVA single phase units in my other posts have found homes in other parts of the builing. Get to buy new stuff! Part of the headaches have stopped! We had a lightning surge 3 weeks ago take out a small audio equipment rack plugged into an unprotected duplex. Recieved an email: "Electrical problems causing phone resetting, gear being damaged after storms. Insure problem will not occur at new facility. Send estimate for review". Not enough money to UPS everything! So here is where the split between UPS mission criticle and everyday protection meets!

The UPS will get the power before the stepdown transformer that feeds the subpanel. So this should help with bonding. Would replacing the standard stepdown x-former with a isolation shielded stepdown x-former offer more protection than say a box mount unit?

This new building is sooo fun! No way install raised floors, Metal Halide lighting ballast, plenty of flourecent lights all 277V, large air conditions everywhere, plasma cutters and welders all in a facility incorporating non-linear video, broadcast quality video/audio production suites, full LAN networking and matrix patching building wide.All in S. Florida, Lighting Central! As you can see I need all the help I can get!

"I would rather ask a dumb question than make a stupid mistake!" Any thoughts or ideas . . .
 

big john

Senior Member
Location
Portland, ME
Re: UPS Neutral Help

Originally posted by dereckbc:
Avoid units that use the words "Joules" or "amps per phase" as they mean nothing other than hype.
I'm curious to know why you say this? I've never heard of surge protectors rated in "amps per phase" but I don't think I've ever seen MOVs sold that weren't rated in joules. Doesn't the joule rating pertain to how much energy can be dissipated by the arrestor in some given quantity of time(is that time set by UL tests?)? Wouldn't this be extremely important in trying to properly size a surge arrestor?
Thanks.
-John
 

dereckbc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Plano, TX
Re: UPS Neutral Help

Big John good question, I have been waiting for it. The “amp per phase” rating is simply the addition of the L-N modules plus the L-G modules. For example if you had a 150 KA module installed from L-N and another 150 KA installed from L-G the “amps per phase rating would be 300 KA. It makes a bold assumption the neutral and ground systems have equal impedance values and perfect current sharing between non-linear MOV modules can be accomplished. Rubbish!

It is important to understand that a “per phase” rating is not supported by any standard or legitimate rating. It is simply a theoretical value that cannot be verified through testing. NEMA LS1-1992 dictates that max surge current rating is provided on a “Per Mode” basis.

Joule is a meaningless rating. It has to be quantified. Is it 10-amps @ 10 minutes, 100-amps in one minute, or 100 KA in 10 microseconds? The answer depends on how the unit is designed, like what size fuses, wire, length, circuit impedance, etc. The maximum surge current rating is defined by NEMA LS1-1992 as “The maximum 8/20 microsecond surge pulse the SPD is capable of surviving on a single-impulse basis without more than 10 percent deviation of clamping voltage at a specified current”.

Here is a good example of a spec sheet and what I look for.
STANDARDS
UL 1449, Second Edition, UL 1283, cUL
ANSI/IEEE C62.41 – 1991, C62.45 – 1995
NEMA LS-1 – 1992
ELECTRICAL
Maximum Surge Current
The maximum surge current rating based on the 8/20ms test waveform is as follows. The rating is based on testing of a complete TVSS unit including fuses and all components that make up the TVSS system are expressed per mode. Third party NEMA LS-1 test results available on request.

Part Number L-L L-N N-G L-G
XXXXX 65kA 65kA 65kA 65kA
XXXXX 80kA 80kA 80kA 80kA
XXXXX 100kA 100kA 100kA 100kA

Maximum Continuous Operating Voltage (MCOV) 115% of nominal.
Minimum Repetitive Surge Current Capacity (Per ANSI/IEEE C62.41-1991 and ANSI/IEEE C62.45-1992)
The TVSS device is repetitive surge current capacity tested utilizing a 1.2x50ms, 20kV open circuit voltage, 8x20ms, 10kA short circuit Category C3 test waveform at one minute intervals.
The Blank device is capable of surviving 5,000 impulses without failure.
UL Witness Fault Current Rating: 65k AIC
Recommended Location Service Entrance Equipment, Distribution Equipment, Branch Panel
UL-1449, 2nd Edition Suppression Voltage Rating (SVR) & Clamping Voltages (all measured with 6” leads)

UL-1449 SVR6kV / 500A Cat. B3 Ringwave100kHz Cat. B3/C1Combination 6kV / 3kA Cat. C3Combination 20kV / 10kA
Part Number Voltage L-N N-G L-G L-N N-G L-G L-N N-G L-G L-N N-G L-G
XXX 120/240 400 400 400 600 650 600 700 700 700 800 850 800
XXX 120/208 400 400 400 600 650 600 700 700 700 800 850 800
XXX 277/480 800 1500 800 1000 1400 1100 1100 1650 1100 1200 1700 1200
Noise Attenuation
The TVSS device EMI-RFI noise rejection or attenuation value is measured in accordance with the procedures outlined in NEMA LS 1-1992/MIL 220A.
Noise Filter Capability 100KHz, 1MHz, 10MHz and 100MHz Max –44db attenuation.

Fusing One fuse per phase, a Surge Rated Fuse (Gould # VSP100) in combination with patented thermal fuse technology.
Standard Monitoring
The TVSS is monitored with a green indicating light per each phase
Contacts for remote monitoring (5 amp, 125VAC)
Connection 10 AWG Conductors
Environmental and External Conditions
Temperature -40? C to +60?C Operating Altitude 0 - 12,000 ft
Surface Temperature less than 55?C Humidity 95% RH, non-condensing atmosphere
No Audible Noise Frequency 50-60 Hz
 

dereckbc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Plano, TX
Re: UPS Neutral Help

Originally posted by audiocableguy:
The UPS will get the power before the stepdown transformer that feeds the subpanel. So this should help with bonding. Would replacing the standard stepdown x-former with a isolation shielded stepdown x-former offer more protection than say a box mount unit?
Actually the transformer should have been installed ahead of the UPS. But yes a shielded isolation is better than standard dry type, they have better CMR. Shielded isolation transformers also are better at TVSS protection than a TVSS device in the common mode, but offer no help in normal mode. However a ferroresonant isolation transformer will provide excellent voltage reulation and both common moded and normal mode TVSS, the only better method is a MG.

If your PBX is resetting during storms, and supplied by a dual conversion UPS, I would bet you have a problem with CO trunk line protector grounding or lack of. I would adventure to say if you have CO trunk protectors they are bonded to a different ground then the UPS is reference too. So any let through voltage of the protectors is discharging through your PBX via UPS ground. There are several things you could do, all expensive. I personally wouldn't put a PBX on a UPS system. I would use a battery plant and install the PBX on a isolated single point ground plane.

If you contact me via e-mail or private message I can direct you to some very good TVSS devices.
 
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