Use of colored wire.

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Wire-Smith

Wire-Smith

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United States
ggunn said:
To be further technical, if there is no neutral then there is no high leg. :D
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to be further further technical, it doesn't have to be orange

110.15 High-Leg Marking. On a 4-wire, delta-connected system where the midpoint of one phase winding is grounded, only the conductor or busbar having the higher phase voltage to ground shall be durably and permanently marked by an outer finish that is orange in color or by other effective means. Such identification shall be placed at each point on the system where a connection is made if the grounded conductor is also present.
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230.56 Service Conductor with the Higher Voltage to Ground. On a 4-wire, delta-connected service where the midpoint of one phase winding is grounded, the service conductor having the higher phase voltage to ground shall be durably and permanently marked by an outer finish that is orange in color, or by other effective means, at each termination or junction point
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210.15(C)(1) is the closest thing i can think of that he may be thinking of or maybe the message is getting lost a little bit in translation, is he saying only one specific leg can blue?
(1) Branch Circuits Supplied from More Than One Nominal Voltage System. Where the premises wiring system has branch circuits supplied from more than one nominal voltage system, each ungrounded conductor of a branch circuit shall be identified by phase or line and system at all termination, connection, and splice points in compliance with 210.5(C)(1)(a) and (b).
(a) Means of Identification. The means of identification shall be permitted to be by separate color coding, marking tape, tagging, or other approved means.
(b) Posting of Identification Means. The method utilized for conductors originating within each branch-circuit panelboard or similar branch-circuit distribution equipment shall be documented in a manner that is readily available or shall be permanently posted at each branch-circuit panelboard or similar branch-circuit distribution equipment. The label shall be of sufficient durability to withstand the environment involved and shall not be handwritten.

Exception: In existing installations where a voltage system(s) already exists and a different voltage system is being added, it shall be permissible to mark only the new system voltage. Existing unidentified systems shall not be required to be identified at each termination, connection, and splice point in compliance with 210.5(C)(1)(a) and (b). Labeling shall be required at each voltage system distribution equipment to identify that only one voltage system has been marked for a new system(s). The new system label(s) shall include the words “other unidentified systems exist on the premises.”
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Wire-Smith

Wire-Smith

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Location
United States
LarryFine said:
Depends; it could mean to be made orange "by other effective means," not merely identified. So there! :cool:
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:D, it's so hard to tell online sometimes if someone is joking around or not, do you really think it absolutely has to be orange? i am honestly asking, i do see a semblance of an interpretation being that way, but i think its a stretch. you don't even have to use colors for ungrounded conductors, you could use labels (if approved(to be technical))

210.5(C)(1)(a).
(a) Means of Identification. The means of identification shall be permitted to be by separate color coding, marking tape, tagging, or other approved means.
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215.12 Identification for Feeders.
(C) Identification of Ungrounded Conductors. Ungrounded conductors shall be identified in accordance with 215.12(C)(1) or (C)(2), as applicable.
(1) Feeders Supplied from More Than One Nominal Voltage System. Where the premises wiring system has feeders supplied from more than one nominal voltage system, each ungrounded conductor of a feeder shall be identified by phase or line and system at all termination, connection, and splice points in compliance with 215.12(C)(1)(a) and (b).
(a) Means of Identification. The means of identification shall be permitted to be by separate color coding, marking tape, tagging, or other approved means.
(b) Posting of Identification Means. The method utilized for conductors originating within each feeder panelboard or similar feeder distribution equipment shall be documented in a manner that is readily available or shall be permanently
posted at each feeder panelboard or similar feeder distribution equipment.
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LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Wire-Smith said:
:D, it's so hard to tell online sometimes if someone is joking around or not, do you really think it absolutely has to be orange?
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I was joking about the "So there!" but I really do think orange is required. Plus, the sections you quoted don't specify a color, while the high-leg rule does.

i am honestly asking, i do see a semblance of an interpretation being that way, but i think its a stretch. you don't even have to use colors for ungrounded conductors, you could use labels (if approved(to be technical))
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For #6 and below, certain conductors must always be colored.

210.5(C)(1)(a).

215.12 Identification for Feeders.
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I would need to read those in context to respond.

To be continued . . .
 
F

Frank DuVal

Senior Member
Location
Fredericksburg, VA 21 Hours from Winged Horses wi
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Electrical Contractor, Electrical Engineer
Maybe they were trained with IEC color codes, where Blue is Neutral?

I was trained to use Solid Works Electrical when it first came out. It only had only pre-programmed IEC colors in there, as it was a European software that Solid Works bought. I told the group I was not using the software, too hard to change all the colors to NEC, and those are the rules I would be using!:thumbsup:
 
Wire-Smith

Wire-Smith

Senior Member
Location
United States
LarryFine said:
I was joking about the "So there!" but I really do think orange is required. Plus, the sections you quoted don't specify a color, while the high-leg rule does.


For #6 and below, certain conductors must always be colored.


I would need to read those in context to respond.


To be continued . . .
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Very interesting, I just posted 210.5(C)(1)(a). 215.12 to support my comment of "you don't even have to use colors for ungrounded conductors, you could use labels (if approved(to be technical))."



2017
110.15 High-Leg Marking. On a 4-wire, delta-connected system where the midpoint of one phase winding is grounded, only the conductor or busbar having the higher phase voltage to ground shall be durably and permanently marked by an outer finish that is orange in color or by other effective means. Such identification shall be placed at each point on the system where a connection is made if the grounded conductor is also present.
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so, do you believe when they say "outer finish" they mean the wire insulation, not tape or heat shrink but that those would be covered by "other effective means?



2017
230.56 Service Conductor with the Higher Voltage to Ground. On a 4-wire, delta-connected service where the midpoint of one phase winding is grounded, the service conductor having the higher phase voltage to ground shall be durably and permanently marked by an outer finish that is orange in color, or by other effective means, at each termination or junction point
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1978 NEC
215-8
Means of Identifying Conductor with the Higher Voltage to Ground. On a 4-wire, delta-connected secondary where the midpoint of one phase is grounded to supply lighting and similar loads, the phase conductor having the higher voltage to ground shall be identified by an outer finish that is orange in color or by tagging or other effective means. Such identification shall be placed at any point where a connection is made if the neutral conductor is also present.
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note the "orange in color or by tagging or other effective means". I know this is not a silver bullet to my interpretation of the current code but thought I would offer it. does it change your mind at all? I am guessing they removed "tagging" because it is already covered by "other effective means."


1981 NEC they put it in 230-56 the way it reads now, nothing stood out in the cmp comments as worth noting.

The reason I see for requiring grounded conductors to absolutely be colored is because of the 0 volts to ground, until you open an energized one, that is. If that makes any sense, someone could get unexpectedly shocked if they measured/metered/non-contact detector/or back in the day the wet finger test it like an ungrounded conductor and cut it or disconnected it someway then having the energized end waiting to shock someone.

that 110.15 really reads poorly doesn't it? "...only the conductor.... shall be... orange.."
 
G

Greg Wrenn

Member
hbiss said:
I'll bite. What's an "amends department"?? :?

-Hal
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It's been so long since I typed this I am not sure what I was meaning as far as that. Has to be a typo of something but not sure what LOL. I know that at that time I became the head of the maintenance department.
 
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