Useless "wall" and . . . receptacle?

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Ragin Cajun

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Upstate S.C.
I have an apartment complex where many of the apartments have the following approximate layout:



As you can see the portion of the "wall" at the lower left shown in a heavy line is totally useless.

The question is . . . is a receptacle really required here?


Thanks
 
That would be up to the AHJ. Some consider this a walkway (hallway) and would not require a receptacle. If the wall continues you can measure around the corner and install the first receptacle no more than 6' from the doorway. If it is a freestanding wall then the 2' rule comes into play. An argument could be made either way, that is why the AHJ has the final say.
 
I would call it a "hallway," and not require a receptacle. But I agree with haskindm, as to it being an AHJ call.
 
useless wall

useless wall

a point to consider....the area behind that door may be "useless" as far as setting furniture, etc., howver, if the heavily furnished room has made the other recepatcles difficult to reach (say perhaps for an eldery or infirm person), that easily accessible receptacle behind the door is a godsend for plugging in the vacuum, etc.
 
This is going to sound presumptuous, as if I'm asking a loaded question. It may be the former but it is not the latter.
The question is . . . is a receptacle really required here?
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I don't see how a receptacle would be required here. 210.52.A.1 says 'no point measured horizontally along the floor 6ft from a receptacle outlet.(sic)' Question 1 wouldn't this mean the red line here?

Question 2, if this is the case then you would use either the red line, the stub wall with the closet door or the bedroom entry door to provide adequate outlet coverage. Does the actual number of receptacles for this room change depending on which location is used to define the wall space?
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You missed a key word in 210.52(A)(1). You missed the word "line."

peteo said:
210.52.A.1 says 'no point measured horizontally along the floor 6ft from a receptacle outlet.
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The rule talks about measuring horizontally along the "floor line." You don't get to measure diagonally across the middle of the floor.
 
Thank you, Charlie. Yes what I called Wall Space and Floor Line requires correction. It may be within 6 feet of a cord, but I wouldn't consider someone using a cord across the door swing a good idea... in fact 210.52.B.1 would define this as a 'new' wall space. My common sense answer, having seen people load their houses with 3 way extensions, etc., is that augie has a pretty good point. I'm sorry as to Cajuns situation I hesitate to answer. Sorry RC :)
 
I often run into this scenario, where there is a little bootheel in the bedroom, and I always include a receptacle if there is 2' or more of wall space even though it may be "useless".

I believe if the wall space is on the bedroom side of the door, and the double doors, for example are closet doors, the wall space wouldn't be called a hall.

Jim T
 
It does not say usable wall space.It is wall space and needs a receptacle.Useless ? says who ? Perhaps a night light or vac..In a small bedroom packed with furniture this might be the only receptacle with easy access.Better to put it in on rough than getting tagged on final.
 
Let's say I have a wall in a bedroom.
Said wall is appx 19' long.
On this wall, are 4 closets.
Each closet has 2 24"' sliding doors(4' total each~ 16' overall)
The remaining 3' is evenly (as much as possible) distributed across the closet openings.

Are ANY recept. required along that 19' wall?
 
To answer OP, receptacle is required, although might be useless. I feel a lot of required receptacles are useless. Until you need one of them. :wink:

To answer Celtic's question, there is not a 19' wallspace, there are 3 wallsaces of approximately 12", so receptacle not required. Unless turning the corner of the wall with closets extends wallspace. (if what I'm trying to describe makes sense.)
 
j_erickson said:
To answer Celtic's question, there is not a 19' wallspace, there are 3 wallsaces of approximately 12", so receptacle not required. Unless turning the corner of the wall with closets extends wallspace. (if what I'm trying to describe makes sense.)
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Unless someone can punch a hole in it, what you said makes sense....and that is what is being done.
 
This has been a pet peeve for me for along time.It started over a floor recptacle in a walkway leading into a loft area.All railing ,the AHJ wanted a recep. within 6 ft. of the start of the stairs. The truss layout put it around 5 ft. 6 in and since there was another 12.5 ft of railing another floor box was required.All at no charge (to meet code).Sure the estimator should have caught this error but it was contracted this way and still is.The AHJ didn`t budge an inch and since the slab floor box standard and bid is brass so are the 2 freebies.All this in an area the home owner says why are those floor boxes there.To meet code maam as I ground my teeth :roll:
 
A pet peeve, eh? Interesting...

Because it was missed by the electrical contracting estimator, and it is now considered a "freebie", you do not believe the NEC should apply?

Whether a "charge " should apply and who is responsible for the charge should be a function of the NEC interpretation?

Because the CURRENT homeowner (at this time) doesn't see the need, then the code minimum standards should not apply?

What am I missing here :?:

My opinion is you might have a beef, but it is with your company's estimator and should never enter the inspection approval process.
 
If it was missed on the estimating portion is one thing, but in the field maybe a flag should have been raised, thereby encouraging a phone call to the inspector to ask a simple question... before finishing the rough. So it is not the estimator's fault alone.

Field conditions during roughing always seem to provide room for questions, and I think the field guys need to know enough code to be able to pick things up that can be a royal pain later. Of course, if installers instead of qualified people are being hired, I hope there is a good super on the job.
 
Maybe I posted incorrectly.1st.yes it was missed by the estimator,2nd it was brought up but was told that the price is the price,3rd it wasn`t the inspectors fault that a railing is installed,4th My peeve is the couple of inches that now required a 2nd floor box.The layout of the stairs that lead to the area and having to walk through this area to get to the three bedrooms,I would really say it is a walkway.These have been built in several other areas and all the other inspectors say it is a walkway.So treat it as a hallway and a wall receptacle on the 1 foot of wall that is besides a bedroom door is sufficent.I`ve seen 100`s of these models occupied and in not one is there anything along this railing.Just another useless receptacle situation I guess.
 
allenwayne said:
Maybe I posted incorrectly.1st.yes it was missed by the estimator,2nd it was brought up but was told that the price is the price,3rd it wasn`t the inspectors fault that a railing is installed,4th My peeve is the couple of inches that now required a 2nd floor box.The layout of the stairs that lead to the area and having to walk through this area to get to the three bedrooms,I would really say it is a walkway.These have been built in several other areas and all the other inspectors say it is a walkway.So treat it as a hallway and a wall receptacle on the 1 foot of wall that is besides a bedroom door is sufficent.I`ve seen 100`s of these models occupied and in not one is there anything along this railing.Just another useless receptacle situation I guess.
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Allen ,i went thru the same stupid problem on a house in Pasco .There was no chance of it ever being needed or used and buyer was very upset to have it.Solution was to put it in so it would be easy to remove after CO.What was needed was a approved print with that area clearly saying Hall.Without that the inspector was able to call it FAMILY ROOM.Yes they had to walk thru the family room to get to the bedrooms. :x :x :x
 
All I can say is I am glad I don't work under conditions so tight that suppling an additional plastic single gang box, cheap receptacle, plate and a little 14/2 is worth my time deciding if I can afford to supply it. :shock:
 
iwire said:
All I can say is I am glad I don't work under conditions so tight that suppling an additional plastic single gang box, cheap receptacle, plate and a little 14/2 is worth my time deciding if I can afford to supply it. :shock:
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Bob,sometimes its not that simple.It might be a floor box and brass cover.Also it is about road time for 2 men and a couple hours of lost time and reinspection fee.When you start paying for this out of the profits you will understand.True its only $5 material and 15 minutes if done on rough and while others are being installed.Also this sometimes is not just 1 house or apartment ,it could be hundreds of them.
 
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