Using rod for for Neutral

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hlee53us

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San Francisco, CA
I ran into the following situation. I was upgrading a flashing beacon system (removing the old beacons and installing new ones). The new system called for new 2#8 AWG 120V, 1#10G. After pulling in the new cable, I found out that the underground pull box (service) coming in from PG&E was 240V and the neutral was connected to a ground rod. To get the new system back up and running I tied both my neutral and ground to the rod. Are there any code violations against this?
 
Are you saying that the utility service does not provide a neutral? If so, it's a violation of the NEC. There must be a low impedance path back to the source, which is the grounded/neutral conductor.
 
hlee53us said:
I ran into the following situation. I was upgrading a flashing beacon system (removing the old beacons and installing new ones). The new system called for new 2#8 AWG 120V, 1#10G. After pulling in the new cable, I found out that the underground pull box (service) coming in from PG&E was 240V and the neutral was connected to a ground rod. To get the new system back up and running I tied both my neutral and ground to the rod. Are there any code violations against this?
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hlee53us said:
Yes the service coming is for street lighting 240V only.
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Besoeker said:
There was/is a neutral which is connected to earth according to the OP.
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Sounds like the only neutral is the earth.
 
infinity said:
Sounds like the only neutral is the earth.
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The OP needs to clarify, my problem is the same as in your first post if the beacons were in fact working. I find it hard to believe the rod was the other side of a circuit.

Roger
 
After re-reading it, I think it sounds like Bes and Roger are right. Sounds like the utility neutral lands directly on the ground rod, and the OP also tied his ground and neutral to the same ground rod.

If that is the case, I don't see any code violations.
 
steve66 said:
After re-reading it, I think it sounds like Bes and Roger are right. Sounds like the utility neutral lands directly on the ground rod, and the OP also tied his ground and neutral to the same ground rod.

If that is the case, I don't see any code violations.
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I started to reply thinking about the same thing, then withdrew before posting.

Now that I had some time to think about it more, I have to ask where is the service disconnecting means? Sounds like this is coming from utility straight to a hand hole, may or may not have a grounded conductor in the supply?
 
kwired said:
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Now that I had some time to think about it more, I have to ask where is the service disconnecting means? Sounds like this is coming from utility straight to a hand hole, may or may not have a grounded conductor in the supply?
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Are we even dealing with an NEC application? Flashing beacon for what? Service in a handhole from PG&E makes me wonder... :angel:

Anyway, if under the NEC, the location of service disconnecting means is what will determine compliance at and upstream of handhole...
 
It looks like the ground rod was driven by someone who needed 120V as opposed to 240V. And yes, beacons work using the ground rod as the neutral (which is not tied back to the utility service).
 
hlee53us said:
The utility coming in is 2 hot legs (240V) only. There is no neutral coming in from the utility service company, so the ground rod is serving as the neutral and ground.
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Is there a ground wire coming in? ...connected to the rod? Anything connected to the rod other than your neutral and ground?

What is providing overcurrent protection? Where is it located?

And I repeat, what is this flashing beacon for?
 
hlee53us said:
The utility coming in is 2 hot legs (240V) only. There is no neutral coming in from the utility service company, so the ground rod is serving as the neutral and ground.
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Where is the service disconnecting means. There should be a grounded conductor to it if it is a grounded system. Beyond the service disconnect we don't need a grounded conductor if there is no loads that utilize the grounded conductor. We still need an equipment grounding conductor that is bonded to the grounded service conductor at the service disconnecting means.

What you have could be legal(sort of) if it is an ungrounded system, but you wouldn't be able to run 120 volt loads without a transformer or other power conversion device.
 
Sorry... so just re-looked at it, so there is a neutral from the utility service to the ground rod. Does this mean no code violations with my ground and neutral also tied in.
 
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