using the stabs wirenuts

[Howard Burger]

I've had trouble pushing in stranded wire. Another problem I've encountered is not stripping the solid (12 awg) far enough so a good connection is made. Opened a panel once in a remodel and saw a little twinkling in the back, it was a two port Wego arcing - I'd cut the wire too short. Like any product, it takes a little getting used to. They take up less space, are fast, and as one post above mentions, can save your fanny if you have a little stubby wire in a box you need to splice to. I carry a container of mixed 2,4 and 6 port push-ins in my work vehicle.

 

[electricguy61]

They also help with the repetitive stress injuries that come with installing twisting thousands of wire nuts.

I use Wago's 98% of the time, the exception being small fixture and devices wires, because as mentioned, small stranded doesn't work well with them.

Teach yourself and your guys to use the little clear window to ensure the wire is properly seated. It takes all of two seconds to check, and removes the biggest problem with using them (that the wires aren't pushed in far enough)

 

[GeorgeB]

I use Wago's 98% of the time, the exception being small fixture and devices wires, because as mentioned, small stranded doesn't work well with them.

Engineer type here who does system commissioning which includes some electrician duties ... wiring and terminating in control panels ...

Many of my customers require ferrules on all wires in panels; these behave like a cross between solid and stranded. I do not like solid under terminals, but the ferrules "displace" enough to make reliable connections. I've never paid any attention to UL (or other NRTL) for them, but inquiring minds ... inquire. They are about 0.3 inches exposed for "small" wires (20/18 AWG) with about 0.4 inches available for 16 AWG (about 0.5" for 14 AWG).

Are they legal for premise wiring? Do they bring anything valuable to the party?

 

[K8MHZ]

If temps are reaching solder melting temps than you've got serious problems

The thing is they probably wouldn't have got that hot if there was no solder to begin with.

Solder and copper expand and contract at different rates. Also, you are using solder as part of the mechanical connection, which is not allowed by the NEC. (If that were not the case you would be able to make the connection just as easy with or without the solder)

Solder also oxidizes faster and easier than copper.

 

[K8MHZ]

I see: Can'tUseAnyLead:lol:

The machines I had already had the tinned wires. That's where I got the idea. Never thought of a listing problem there, but that might be a concern with the Wago/Ideal.

Priceless!

I'll bet they weren't tinned with ordinary solder. Also, I'll bet that the were twisted tight and dipped in molten tinning compound so the wires were not moved as the compound was applied. When you tin a wire with a solder gun or iron, the strands move as the solder is applied and become part of the mechanical integrity of the termination. Also, I'll bet every molecule of flux was removed with cleaner as part of the process.

 

[cadpoint]

I dont really know what there called but they come with different amounts of holes in them and you use them instead of wirenuts. you dont have to twist. I have all my guys use them in light fixtures. its alot quicker. i wonder if they are trying to get those labled for the fixture disconnect. The problem is i was speaking with my supply house guy and he said they aren't popular at all and they may stop carrying them. does anyone here find them usefull?

First question I have is what exactly is the type of light fixture? My second is what type of indoor location other than dwellings and associated structures?

I would read all of Article 410.130(G) and the Exceptions.

In respects to flourscent lights:

I went to Wago.us and could not find a male female disconnect like they show in Ideal Luminaire Disconnects.
IMO it is a faulty design application to have a protentional live wire that becomes exposed when released by using
a wago disconnect. (as mentioned this is a German co.) that's a live wire of 220V show in the picture! One really has to go to Approvals of the wago disconnects and note that these connections are only have a rated UL of 300V at the highest temperture of 120? C. Take item 224-114; "2-CONDUCTOR LIGHTING CONNECTOR STANDARD TYPE CONTINUOUS SERVICE TEMPERATURE 120?C that's the first to be using with 12 AWG, but again still on 300V.

I don't have a problem using another wago item or an ideal connector in a receptacal box, lights it seems it gets real tricky with wago.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

Solder also oxidizes faster and easier than copper.

What do you base this on?

 

[Little Bill]

Priceless!

I'll bet they weren't tinned with ordinary solder. Also, I'll bet that the were twisted tight and dipped in molten tinning compound so the wires were not moved as the compound was applied. When you tin a wire with a solder gun or iron, the strands move as the solder is applied and become part of the mechanical integrity of the termination. Also, I'll bet every molecule of flux was removed with cleaner as part of the process.

I'm not sure how they were tinned originally, but I've had to repair many wires that were broken on the machine and I always tinned them back before inserting them in the connectors. I used a solder for electrical connections, I believe it was a resin core, can't remember. I do know that I never had any oxidation or melting problems. Some of the voltages were 220V.

 

[renosteinke]

The OP makes clear the guy lacks information, and is asking for some .... he just wasn't very clear which question he was asking.

We all know about wire nuts.

"Push in" connectors come in a variety of forms, for a variety of purposes.

The original "Wago" and Ideal's "In-Sure" are used in most situations where you would use a wire nut. I have found them to work very well, especially with neutral connections. The only downside is that they are permanent connections.

Wago has a variation of the push-in connector that has, instead, little levers, one for each wire. These are great for those situations where you might want to later return and re-arrange the wires. For example, in 2-level lighting in a room. I suppose you might use them with ballasts, though I don't think they would meet the standard for a disconnect device.

For ballast disconnects, there are a variety of connectors used by the manufacturers. None of the brands are interchangeable with the others, so if you plan to replace a ballast you also need to add/replace the connector. You will find the Ideal version at the parts house. It's not used by any of the fixture makers. That's the situation with fixtures: the guys making the 'plugs' are not co-operating with the guys making the 'sockets.'

 

[petersonra]

Wago has a variation of the push-in connector that has, instead, little levers, one for each wire. These are great for those situations where you might want to later return and re-arrange the wires. For example, in 2-level lighting in a room. I suppose you might use them with ballasts, though I don't think they would meet the standard for a disconnect device.

Why wouldn't they. You can undo the lever for one wire pull it out and it is disconnected. No live parts are exposed.

Unless the requirement is for a single connector that disconnects both lines at once.

 

[K8MHZ]

What do you base this on?

Personal experience. I have been soldering stuff for almost 45 years. That's why you need flux, remember?

I have some cheap solder that is oxidized so bad the oxide comes off in your hand, and the solder still on the roll!

Solder has an oxide that is a white powder. CU's are either a red or a black powder.

Just by your own observation, how many times have you seen a solder joint covered with white powder vs. bare copper covered with red or black powder?

Also, copper forms a patina that is electrically conductive and seals the rest of the metal from water and air, just like bronze does.

Solder has it's uses and I am a big fan of soldered connections vs. crimped, but have seen many failures of tinned stranded wire under pressure connections.

Solder should be totally independent of the mechanical component of a connection. Ideally, the solder should not be applied until after the mechanical connection is made.

If you work on electronics at all, you will know that solder is used on PC boards for mechanical connections. If you have done any repair in the electronics field, you will know that the #1 failure of a board is a 'cold solder joint', or a 'dry solder connection', both of which would not exist if the solder wasn't used as the mechanical part of the connection. If you have worked with bad solder connections and use a microscope (like I do) to locate them, take note that the ring formed by the separation of the joint on a flat board is covered with oxidation nearly 100 percent of the time.

 

[K8MHZ]

To add to the above for Twoskins:

About 10 years ago I built a radio antenna, called a 'double bazooka', out of some coaxial cable that had been on the roof of our county building for about a decade. The scrap wire was my thanks for working on some antennas up there.

The antenna is basically a 'T' with the centers of each leg soldered together. The only reason I made it was because of the 'free' coax. Up it went and did well for 6 or 7 years. Then it failed and I took it down. The solder was so oxidized it was literally falling apart. The copper was still fine. I didn't expect it to last as I did a poor job sealing all the connections, but the point is that the solder was the weak link in the chain.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Don't you put your wires in there the same way you would backstab a receptacle?:?

 

[tw]

I design pdu's (power distribution units, sequectial controllers, etc.) for an OEM and have used the WAGO wall-nuts for years with no problems with both stranded and solid THHN wire. Ther are much faster than crimp connectors.
However, NEVER should you tin stranded wire before using it in any pressure type connector, including wire nuts. Solder is soft and it migrates over time. You might have the tightest connection in the world when you first make it, but 6 months later it will be loose.