Value Engineering Pathway Lighting

[mtnelect]

Here in Los Angeles, they have a bikeway along the Los Angeles River. Each pole has its own solar panel which feeds a LED fixture. It has been working great for the last 5 years. The only question, how much sunlight do you have there ?

 

[Barbqranch]

Any chance the bulbs are all burned out? That was the case w/ an apartment complex I worked on.

 

[Todd0x1]

What about bollard lights instead of tall poles? Cheaper (~$180/ea) and much less of a concrete base required. Might be able to actually light half the thing for their 50k with these.

Edit: I see you're in california. How much of your 50K is energy code compliance going to eat?

 

[LarryFine]

What about bollard lights instead of tall poles? Cheaper (~$180/ea) and much less of a concrete base required.

How about none? http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/gard-n-post/

 

[Todd0x1]

How about none? http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/gard-n-post/ View attachment 2560145

Since this is more of a commercial environment I was thinking these https://www.superbrightleds.com/cat/led-bollard-lights/

 

[ccschoch]

What about bollard lights instead of tall poles? Cheaper (~$180/ea) and much less of a concrete base required. Might be able to actually light half the thing for their 50k with these.

Edit: I see you're in california. How much of your 50K is energy code compliance going to eat?

Not in CA on this one, thankfully.

Since this is more of a commercial environment I was thinking these https://www.superbrightleds.com/cat/led-bollard-lights/

How about none? http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/gard-n-post/ View attachment 2560145

One of these might be the answer!



Thanks for the input y'all.

 

[ccschoch]

Any chance the bulbs are all burned out? That was the case w/ an apartment complex I worked on.

Seems unlikely, since they've had electricians out. Not good ones apparently, but you'd think even a bad one would catch that.

 

[ccschoch]

Solar Bollard Lighting Systems - Greenshine New Energy

The small, discreet Bollard Series solar LED lighting system is perfect for residential and commercial pathways or parks. Zero trenching or wiring, this solar lighting system works incredibly for a variety of needs.

www.streetlights-solar.com

Y'all have any thoughts on this? I'd have maintenance concerns and shade could be a problem in spots, but it seems like it might not be a bad supplemental option?

 

[Todd0x1]

Solar Bollard Lighting Systems - Greenshine New Energy

The small, discreet Bollard Series solar LED lighting system is perfect for residential and commercial pathways or parks. Zero trenching or wiring, this solar lighting system works incredibly for a variety of needs.

www.streetlights-solar.com

Y'all have any thoughts on this? I'd have maintenance concerns and shade could be a problem in spots, but it seems like it might not be a bad supplemental option?

3w of led doesn't seem like very much light for the application. Roughly 10x less lumens than the hardwired ones I posted.

 

[ccschoch]

3w of led doesn't seem like very much light for the application. Roughly 10x less lumens than the hardwired ones I posted.

They're saying 90lumen/W on those, so 270 vs. 1200 on yours. Which you're right, still isn't much. My thinking on those was primarily for supplemental lighting in between existing poles. I found another one at 480 lumens as well.

I've got a request in for pricing information, curious how it breaks out cost wise. Ultimately, if these guys aren't getting full lighting regardless, I figure the solar option at least gets them some lighting throughout, versus just one stretch at full illumination. I can pour bases with sleeves for future as well, if they come up with more money down the line.

 

[hillbilly1]

Here where they will need the money down the line.

Can You File a Lawsuit for Injuries Caused by Poor Lighting? | Grano Law

When poor lighting causes you an injury, you may have the chance to file an insurance claim or civil lawsuit to pay for your medical bills, lost wages, and other out-of-pocket costs. Click here to learn more about your options.

www.granolaw.com

 

[Todd0x1]

They're saying 90lumen/W on those, so 270 vs. 1200 on yours. Which you're right, still isn't much. My thinking on those was primarily for supplemental lighting in between existing poles. I found another one at 480 lumens as well.

I've got a request in for pricing information, curious how it breaks out cost wise. Ultimately, if these guys aren't getting full lighting regardless, I figure the solar option at least gets them some lighting throughout, versus just one stretch at full illumination. I can pour bases with sleeves for future as well, if they come up with more money down the line.

I was looking at this one specifically, 2640 lumens. I'd almost be inclined to buy one, put a plywood base and cord on it, and see what it looks like and how they should be spaced.

Round LED Bollard Light with Flat Top - Cone Reflector - Bronze Finish - 22W - 2,640 Lumens - 3000K / 4000K / 5000K

Round LED Bollard brings added safety and aesthetics to commercial locations such as building entryways, pathways, and perimeters. Diffused cone reflector projects downward light for ideal spacing and reduced pedestrian glare. Architectural-grade materials include die cast aluminum housing...

www.superbrightleds.com

 

[ccschoch]

I was looking at this one specifically, 2640 lumens. I'd almost be inclined to buy one, put a plywood base and cord on it, and see what it looks like and how they should be spaced.

Round LED Bollard Light with Flat Top - Cone Reflector - Bronze Finish - 22W - 2,640 Lumens - 3000K / 4000K / 5000K

Round LED Bollard brings added safety and aesthetics to commercial locations such as building entryways, pathways, and perimeters. Diffused cone reflector projects downward light for ideal spacing and reduced pedestrian glare. Architectural-grade materials include die cast aluminum housing...

www.superbrightleds.com

E = Φ / d2
where

E = light intensity, illumination (lux, lumen/m2)

Φ = the quantity of light emitted by a lamp or a light source - luminous flux (lumen, lm)

d = distance from light source (m)


Assuming a 10.7lux (or 1fc) minimum, that's 10.7=2640/d². So, d=15.4 horizontally. Those bollards are 1m high, so distance would be 15.4²+1²=d², which is still roughly 15.5 meters, or 31m between bollards.

I think I got that right, I don't do a ton of lighting calcs.

 

[Todd0x1]

E = Φ / d2
where

E = light intensity, illumination (lux, lumen/m2)

Φ = the quantity of light emitted by a lamp or a light source - luminous flux (lumen, lm)

d = distance from light source (m)


Assuming a 10.7lux (or 1fc) minimum, that's 10.7=2640/d². So, d=15.4 horizontally. Those bollards are 1m high, so distance would be 15.4²+1²=d², which is still roughly 15.5 meters, or 31m between bollards.

I think I got that right, I don't do a ton of lighting calcs.

Nice. Me not being much of a math guy, I buy the light and see what it looks like.

 

[wwhitney]

I think I got that right, I don't do a ton of lighting calcs.

Me neither, but shouldn't your original formula have a 4 pi in the denominator (area of a sphere)? Also, that would give you a the lux on a surface perpendicular to the ray from the light source. If you're illuminating a sidewalk, there needs to be a cosine factor in there. And finally, that would be for a point source radiating in all directions, whereas the bollard concentrates the lights in certain angles.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[ccschoch]

Me neither, but shouldn't your original formula have a 4 pi in the denominator (area of a sphere)? Also, that would give you a the lux on a surface perpendicular to the ray from the light source. If you're illuminating a sidewalk, there needs to be a cosine factor in there.

Cheers, Wayne

I believe lux is already defined as lumens/4r²pi, so that's built in.

Apparently E = Φ / d2 cos θ is my formula for non perpendicular.

Given 15.4 as my hypotenuse regardless, that gives me 10.76=(2640/d²)(d/15.4), or d=15.9

 

[wwhitney]

I believe lux is already defined as lumens/4r²pi, so that's built in.

I believe that's candela, not lux.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

Me neither

There's a wealth of data in the Photometric Spec Sheet linked to on the product page. And I'm not familiar with the import of most of them, not having a photometric background.

But I think I can extract some useful data for a sample computation (which is likely expressed already in one of the graphs if I were more familiar with them). The table on the last page says that at a gamma angle of 60 degrees (where 0 = down and 90 = horizontal), the unit puts out 555 candela. (That's at a C angle of 0, I'm just going to use that column and the assumption that our point on the sidewalk is at the same C angle as the distance varies.)

So call the unit height 1m and consider a point on the sidewalk sqrt(3) m away. That will be at the angle 60 degrees, and the point will be 2m from the light source. Now we can divide the candela (lumens per steradian) by the distance squared to get the lux on a surface perpendicular to the ray from the light source. So at 2 meters the perpendicular lux will be 555/4 = 139 lux.

But the sidewalk is not perpendicular to the ray from the light source; it is in fact at 60 degrees from normal. So we further multiply by cos(60) = 1/2, and find that the bollard should produce 70 lux on the sidewalk at a distance of sqrt(3) m (in plan) from the bollard.

To go farther afield, the candela at an angle of 80 degrees is given as 256. Now the distance on the sidewalk will be tan(80) meters, and the distance from the light source will be sqrt(tan^2(80)+1). So the lux on a perpendicular plane will be 256/(tan^2(80)+1), and on the sidewalk it will be 256 cos(80)/(tan^2(80)+1). Or evaluating the numbers, at 5.7m away (in plan) on the sidewalk, the illumination on the sidewalk will be 1.3 lux.

At 70 degrees the candela is listed as 428. So repeating, we get that at a distance of 2.7 m, the illumination on the sidewalk will be 17 lux.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Strathead]

Sounds like a walk away to me. From your description they will never be satisfied. Price will be too much quality will be too little.

 

[ccschoch]

There's a wealth of data in the Photometric Spec Sheet linked to on the product page. And I'm not familiar with the import of most of them, not having a photometric background.

But I think I can extract some useful data for a sample computation (which is likely expressed already in one of the graphs if I were more familiar with them). The table on the last page says that at a gamma angle of 60 degrees (where 0 = down and 90 = horizontal), the unit puts out 555 candela. (That's at a C angle of 0, I'm just going to use that column and the assumption that our point on the sidewalk is at the same C angle as the distance varies.)

So call the unit height 1m and consider a point on the sidewalk sqrt(3) m away. That will be at the angle 60 degrees, and the point will be 2m from the light source. Now we can divide the candela (lumens per steradian) by the distance squared to get the lux on a surface perpendicular to the ray from the light source. So at 2 meters the perpendicular lux will be 555/4 = 139 lux.

But the sidewalk is not perpendicular to the ray from the light source; it is in fact at 60 degrees from normal. So we further multiply by cos(60) = 1/2, and find that the bollard should produce 70 lux on the sidewalk at a distance of sqrt(3) m (in plan) from the bollard.

To go farther afield, the candela at an angle of 80 degrees is given as 256. Now the distance on the sidewalk will be tan(80) meters, and the distance from the light source will be sqrt(tan^2(80)+1). So the lux on a perpendicular plane will be 256/(tan^2(80)+1), and on the sidewalk it will be 256 cos(80)/(tan^2(80)+1). Or evaluating the numbers, at 5.7m away (in plan) on the sidewalk, the illumination on the sidewalk will be 1.3 lux.

At 70 degrees the candela is listed as 428. So repeating, we get that at a distance of 2.7 m, the illumination on the sidewalk will be 17 lux.

Cheers, Wayne

Nice! That's what I get for assuming isotropism.