pfus
Member
- Location
- Chicago NW burbs
- Occupation
- Elect. Engineer
Just wondering whether adding a AFCI (and GFCI combo) provides real value for hardwired devices like disposals, dishwasher, etc with EMT?
What's going to happen to a dishwasher that makes AFCI useful?Think AFCI protection for dishwashers is a great move.
Makes sense, since that's where they started.Locally, one jurisdiction has amended such that all raceways must be metal, and as such AFCIs are only required in bedrooms, which seems to me an acceptable compromise.
thanks, that is what I thought.The exact value is zero.
The value in any EMT scenario approaches zero, with a microdrop of value for terminated devices, and a smidge of value for anything cord connected.
Locally, one jurisdiction has amended such that all raceways must be metal, and as such AFCIs are only required in bedrooms, which seems to me an acceptable compromise.
EMT is already a huge step up in protection, it should override the lesser protection offered by an AFCI.
Alternatively, remove NM from the code along with AFCIs.
I can't recall which NEC edition first required GFCI for dishwashers but shock hazards wasn't even the primary reason why, there were certain units that had a component that was prone to starting fires when it failed, was discovered that GFCI would usually detect this failure. IMO this should have been addressed with product recalls and not code changes. NEC bailed out those manufacturers with this code change to address one of their defects.thanks, that is what I thought.
Sometimes, I question the use of GFCI for a grounded hardwired flex EMT device such as a dishwasher...
Might be 2008 or 2011 I can't remember but it was around the time I started that gfi on DW was the up in arms issue.I can't recall which NEC edition first required GFCI for dishwashers but shock hazards wasn't even the primary reason why, there were certain units that had a component that was prone to starting fires when it failed, was discovered that GFCI would usually detect this failure. IMO this should have been addressed with product recalls and not code changes. NEC bailed out those manufacturers with this code change to address one of their defects.
AFCI provides no real value to anything except the manufacturers profits.Just wondering whether adding a AFCI (and GFCI combo) provides real value for hardwired devices like disposals, dishwasher, etc with EMT?
The best protection property owners have against hacks, is to enforce the electrical permit, & avoid General Contractors (GC).AFCI provides no real value to anything except the manufacturers profits.
hmmm, linking to your own post and calling it "cream of the crop", you don't lack for self-confidenceThe best protection property owners have against hacks, is to enforce the electrical permit, & avoid General Contractors (GC).
Asking contractors to include AFCI's just make the roaches scatter, and leaves the cream of the crop left standing.
Really? My house was wired in 1977 with NM cable. No problem. No problem to solve, either.AFCIs are a bs answer to the problem posed by a clearly flawed technology (romex). Remove romex from the code, problem solved.
It was wired properly and serviced properly. Congrats, you got not-unlucky.Really? My house was wired in 1977 with NM cable. No problem. No problem to solve, either.
Ron
Is it required by code where installed? Adding, if not required, depending on who you talk to may or may not have any value at all. Real value might only be in passing an inspection.Just wondering whether adding a AFCI (and GFCI combo) provides real value for hardwired devices like disposals, dishwasher, etc with EMT?
If I got "not un-lucky", so did the millions of other buildings that were wired with NM. BTW, how does one service NM?It was wired properly and serviced properly. Congrats, you got not-unlucky.
I do service for a living; I see the differences between install types. A lot are not wired properly, either due to original construction or later DIY-tier bs not understanding what grounding is.
Even if we accept the snake oil of AFCIs, do you really think they're that necessary within an EMT installation? The risks are greatly reduced, and contained within metal raceways.
EMT is a vastly superior approach. The grounding is automatic. Human error is less of an issue in causing safety hazards. Arcs aren't a major concern. Adding circuits and switch legs is a cinch.
NM is some third world 20th century jank that should be written out.
If you can wire a house in EMT, I can excuse your ignorance with AFCI'shmmm, linking to your own post and calling it "cream of the crop", you don't lack for self-confidence![]()
We also have older apartment buildings with steal FMC raceways, which gets ripped out for #14 cable everywhere. That's how property management employees deal with portable air-conditioner overloads.EMT is a vastly superior approach. The grounding is automatic. Human error is less of an issue in causing safety hazards. Arcs aren't a major concern. Adding circuits and switch legs is a cinch.