vanity light boxes

[tonyou812]

i just love it when people install bar vanity lights with the little yellow masonry plastic anchors, into sheet rock. Most of these lights come with these anchors. Whether its right or wrong I have installed many bath and wall sconces with cut in boxes and have never had a problem. Dare I say that a little common sense go's a long way.

Its funny cause now that I think about it, I remember installing two swing arm lamps (from Pottery Barn) in my own home and I distinctly remember that the light came with its own sort of pancake box that mounts on the wall and the light attached to the box with two screws on the flange of the pancake. It came with three metal sheet rock screw type anchors and and I wondered how many people actually used these to install these heavy and awkward swing arm lamps and actually had success. The instructions (from china) made no distinction between sheet rock or plywood and they included "sheet rock" anchors with them. IMO these anchors would never hold these lights up for very long but they are included and no distinction made to the wall they are installed on.

 

[iwire]

And it says no light fixtures shall be supported by the Sheetrock???? Certainly one could use a smoke detector with these boxes. So why not a lite fixture?

Don posted the info before, as I recall it the gypsum board folks say Sheetrock is not to support anything on a ceiling.

I have installed many ceiling fixtures with toggles in the past but since seeing Don's info I have stopped.

FWIW I have fixed at least 3 surface mounted fluorescent fixtures that had been on toggles but fell down when the rock got wet.

One from rain water getting in two from sprinkler pipe leaks.

I will not be surprised if we soon see a prohibition in the NEC against using sheet rock for support of electrical equipment....at least on ceilings.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Don posted the info before, as I recall it the gypsum board folks say Sheetrock is not to support anything on a ceiling.
I have installed many ceiling fixtures with toggles in the past but since seeing Don's info I have stopped.

Well I think then that the box itself is supported on the ceiling and they are worthless. Seems odd that they are approved for nothing.

Additional supports shall be provided for support of fixtures.

What is a fixture? Would a smoke detector be considered a fixture? How about a receptacle in an old work box. I have seen these break loose more than I have seen fixtures pull the box out of the ceiling.-- I did come across one because some nut hung a fan with the pop in and it stayed there for years before finally pushing thru the rock. I am not justifying idiocracy.

FWIW I have fixed at least 3 surface mounted fluorescent fixtures that had been on toggles but fell down when the rock got wet.

I thought what if's were not allowed. Sure as I said before if a tree falls thru the roof and knocks the ceiling joist the light will also fall. FWIW I have hung fluorescent for 30 years with toggles and I don't know of one that has fallen. -- Sure if it gets wet it probably will sag at the least. I also saw a ceiling fan bracket (that I installed) fatigued and snap in half after 10 years and the fan hung there by the wires. Yet it allowed to hang these fans with those pot metal brackets.

I will not be surprised if we soon see a prohibition in the NEC against using sheet rock for support of electrical equipment....at least on ceilings.

This I would be suprised, however anything is possible.

My point is only to question how these boxes are made for a purpose and cannot be used. Seems odd to me. And I understand that not all EC would make a good judgement as to how much weight would be safe.

 

[iwire]

Well I think then that the box itself is supported on the ceiling and they are worthless. Seems odd that they are approved for nothing.

Maybe the ceiling is made of tongue and grove wood like my porch ceiling, then the box would be helpful. (I have an old work Carlon old work out there supporting a fixture)

The fact the box is made and is listed has notihng to do with what the structure around it can hold.

What is a fixture? Would a smoke detector be considered a fixture?

Back to Don's info....nothing, the ceiling mounted sheet rock is not to support anything.

I looked for Dons post but could not find it.

I thought what if's were not allowed.

LOL :grin:

The entire code is what if's.

I don't know of one that has fallen. -- Sure if it gets wet it probably will sag at the least.

How would you know, how do I know about the ones I had hung?

Stop and think a minute, do you consider Sheetrock a structural element?

UL will not allow old works in fire rated walls, the box must be secured to the studs. This is a fact and can be found in the UL orange book.

My point is only to question how these boxes are made for a purpose and cannot be used.

Anything can be made, it is up to the installer to use it responsibly.

What is the minimum size sheet rock would you mount the box to and expect a 50 lb rating?

Double 5/8", 5/8", 1/2", 3/8"?

 

[e57]

I put a 5lbs fixture on a wall today with a retro chandelier/fan box - over-kill - sure - will it come down - doubt it.....