Vanity Rough In

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George Stolz

George Stolz

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Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
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Hospital Master Electrician
We've been dealing with something new lately. Our standard practice for bathroom vanities is to staple a scrap of romex to the face of the studs, and stub the switchleg out of the drywall, to allow for fudge factoring at trim to center the light over the sink. At trim, a cut-in is installed in the best location.

Now, a certain AHJ is requiring a box to be installed at rough-in. If an error is made, there is a serious hole to be patched.

I believe it's the inspector's right to remove a fixture to inspect amd verify there is a box behind it, if they are concerned about it. IMO, Requiring a box at rough-in isn't code.

Any thoughts?
 
Re: Vanity Rough In

I remember looking this up before and I'm almost 100% sure that your inspector is out to lunch. I just don't recall where to find it. :(
 
Re: Vanity Rough In

I'm not sure but I think that if the light fixture is of the bar type that is listed to be used as a JB & the NM cable can be secured with an NM connector you would not need a box anyway. This is the way we use to install this type of fixture in the past.
 
Re: Vanity Rough In

Tell the inspector the fixture is going to be an "electric discharge luminaire" (Fluorescent) and connected directly to the NM cable after the painting is finished. Once the drywall is up install your cut-in box and tell the inspector the owner changed their mind and wanted the fixture that required a box for support. I could be reaching here but check out 410-14.
 
Re: Vanity Rough In

I'm pretty sure you can actually derive permission from the code.

There's a thread around a month old that answers this. I think it answers this.
 
Re: Vanity Rough In

Nothing in NEC forbids a cut in.There might be a local code,but why ?There was a tread her while back on leaving wire behind drywall till trim.
 
Re: Vanity Rough In

We use vanity strips that have no provision to be box mounted,1/2 in hit lock connector or nm connector 2 zip fastners done deal.There was an issue awhile back where the AHJ required a box on one brand since the manufacturers installation literature provided required a box to be used.Simply mounted a pancake box to back of fixture(not wall)bonded it and mounted in normal matter.He has to have a code reference he is citing just ask him what article requires a box on rough ;)
 
Re: Vanity Rough In

There are always inspectors that come up with something ridiculous for no other reason than to bust your {Moderator's Note: Edited out a colorful expression}. Hand him the book and say show me pinhead. Or maybe ask nicely. I usually don't even stub the wire out at all. Bury it in the wall and cut it in on finish. No chance of having a hole in the wrong place.

[ February 10, 2005, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: charlie b ]
 
Re: Vanity Rough In

I don't think the inspector is completely off base, but I don't see how he can require the box to be installed on the rough in.

If we are talking about the cheap Broadway style strip lights, then burying the cable or a stub out is fine. But other types of vanity fixtures that require a box may present a problem.

I'm not so sure that an old-work or "cut in" box is suitable for fixture support. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.


That is not to say I have never hung a vanity fixture off an old work box. ;) But that certainly doesn't make it right. :roll:

I was quite surprised when I read Carlon's FAQs in regards to their Zip Blue boxes. They say that their round old work box is not suitable for fixture support - it can be used for splices only. Granted, they are always used this way but that is in violation of their listed use.

I'm not sure about other kinds of 3" round O/W boxes but they might have the same restriction based on the same logic from Carlon - that a box held to sheetrock only is not suitable for fixure support.
 
Re: Vanity Rough In

As long as the fixture doesn`t have open slots and mounting holes there is no box required .The open slotted fixtures come with a plastic bushing.This is to be used only with a box in place don`t use it and try to set a hollywood strip in place with just that (not secured)As far as maybe a relative of my problem child :D Oh new one today :D
 
Re: Vanity Rough In

Doesnt the code require that light fixtures be mounted with nothing less than a 8/32 machine screw?

Maybe this is what he is thinking of?
 
Re: Vanity Rough In

It was 8/32`s until 2002,I believe 314.27 Exc. that allowa 1 gang box with #6 screws as long as no more than 6 lbs.(don`t have cd loaded on this pc yet)To reference :eek:
 
Re: Vanity Rough In

This is what your look for:

314.27 Outlet Boxes.
(A) Boxes at Luminaire (Lighting Fixture) Outlets. Boxes used at luminaire (lighting fixture) or lampholder outlets shall be designed for the purpose. At every outlet used exclusively for lighting, the box shall be designed or installed so that a luminaire (lighting fixture) may be attached.
Exception: A wall-mounted luminaire (fixture) weighing not more than 3 kg (6 lb) shall be permitted to be supported on other boxes or plaster rings that are secured to other boxes, provided the luminaire (fixture) or its supporting yoke is secured to the box with no fewer than two No. 6 or larger screws.
Click to expand...
What get's me is I have not found any where where it say's that fixtures have to be mounted with a 8/32 screw? and this is the only place where even No. 6 or larger is ever mention. Maybe it's a UL requirement
 
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