visible disconnect blades

[don_resqcapt19]

I think the "window" would be of little use to us electricians, but may be of help to others who do not have a means to check voltage in their back pocket.

How can a visual check be ok for others to verify their safety, but not good enough for electrical work?
Don

 

[dlhoule]

For non-electrical lock-outs we use a try-lock-try system. All motors have a local jog button that bypasses all interlocks. You go to the motor, push the jog button and see it move, then go to the MCC and lock out the starter, return to the job button and push it again and see nothing happen. {lock outs are remote from the motor per 430.102(B) Exception (b)}
Don

I like your method. However, there are a few multi motor machines out there that are not equipped with jog buttons. Same principle still applies. Start and stop the motors....lock out and try starting motors again. Works great most of the time.

 

[tomP]

How can a visual check be ok for others to verify their safety, but not good enough for electrical work?
Don

In electrical work we usually touch the wires. In other work they do not touch electrical conductors.
We make every attempt to make sure that the machine will not start by telling them watch the lights go from "on to off" while turning off the start circuit and the switch then attempt to start. If the machine won't start it is a good indicator the switch is open. At least to the point the machine will not operate. You may wish to feel electrically safe at that point, I don't.
If there were any way possible for an electrician to check a machine every time it was shut down for work on it I am all for it. In a lot of cases there is an electrician on the job to do the necessary tests, but on occasion there are none available so what is the answer? Wait for an electrician to show up? Give everybody a wiggy? Do a lockout procedure that has been written by an electrician and tested numerous times by electrical, mechanical, safety and supervision people and go ahead an get the equipment up and running.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Tom,

In electrical work we usually touch the wires. In other work they do not touch electrical conductors.

The mechanical hazard can injure or kill just the same as the electrical hazard.

You may wish to feel electrically safe at that point, I don't.

Not really, but in the same manner, why should someone feel mechanically safe at that point? Why a double standard...is the electricians safety more important than the mechanics?

Is anyone using this device to verify electrical lockout?

Don

 

[realolman]

Do your union guys like machine repair millwright pipefitter etc. use a voltage tester to determine if voltage is present?

Yes they do.

There are no specialized guys. Everyone does everything.

Since you indicated that you would have to hire a bunch more guys in order to check voltage , pneumatics etc. I assumed that you do not have these guys and do not check these things.

What do you do if you don't check?

If someone goes to work on a machine that is locked/tagged out can they assume that it is de-energized, or do you have different levels of lock out... it's ok to plumb this machine, or weld on it, but don't touch the wiring. Or is it ok to weld and wire, but not plumb?

 

[tomP]

Yes they do.

There are no specialized guys. Everyone does everything.

Since you indicated that you would have to hire a bunch more guys in order to check voltage , pneumatics etc. I assumed that you do not have these guys and do not check these things.

What do you do if you don't check?QUOTE]

Do all your mechanical people have electrical journeyman cards? Do all your people use PPE? I will not go any further with this union "handyman" discussion.

Once more: We disconnect ALL energy sources before entering a work area. This procedure has been tested numerous times by numerous people. This procedure exceedes OSHA requirements. This procedure has been in place over twelve years in our facility with NO accidents.
As I stated in one of my first posts I am here to learn anything that will help me or my coworkers safer or work more efficiently. I am not here to defend a company policy or explain a procedure you would have to see first hand to understand.
One last note IF ANY PERSON FEELS UNSAFE after using our lockout procedure we would be more that happy to have an ELECTRICIAN check for any power.
Yes this has happened when someone was not familiar with the equipment they were to work on.

don_resqcapt19
That device looked like something I would like to look at. That is what I'm here for.
Thank you

 

[realolman]

I will not go any further with this union "handyman" discussion.

Well that's pretty insulting.

I think you've already gone too far.

 

[rcwilson]

Canadian inspectors and many US utilities require a visible break on a disconnecting means. We have seen European Gas Insulated Switchgear (GIS) equipment that had to be retrofitted with small TV cameras inside the 46 kV switchgear so the electricians could plug in a viewer and verify disconnect switch position prior to work.