Voltage Ratings: 110/115/120, 220/230/240 or 440/460/480

[Joethemechanic]

238v, 166v, 108v, 63Hz, 49Hz.
If it works, then don't question it.

Standards fall into many categories, some have more bite than others. ISO, ANSI, UL, NEC, CEC, NEMA, on and on the list goes. Some better than others, etc.

Back in the day I worked in plants that looked as bad as that photo. I miss those days

 

[masterinbama]

Used to stay in some cabins that were built for the CCC. they were wired to rural electrification standards
wish i had some photos

 

[Besoeker3]

238v, 166v, 108v, 63Hz, 49Hz.
If it works, then don't question it.

Standards fall into many categories, some have more bite than others. ISO, ANSI, UL, NEC, CEC, NEMA, on and on the list goes. Some better than others, etc.

What an absolute bloody mess....................................

 

[Joethemechanic]

Used to stay in some cabins that were built for the CCC. they were wired to rural electrification standards
wish i had some photos

 

[jmellc]

What an absolute bloody mess....................................

Just a larger version of what I've seen in many crawlspaces and attics.

 

[Sberry]

I kind of get that it works but who pays the bill? Seems like one could steal a pinch and no one would ever know.

 

[Joethemechanic]

I kind of get that it works but who pays the bill? Seems like one could steal a pinch and no one would ever know.

It's just like an energy assistance program without all the pesky paperwork. Somebody else pays

 

[Sberry]

We got a deal from our poco. They are terrible as a bureaucratic outfit. We have a rural outfit too, they are genius in comparison to Consumers Energy. Consumers has a big program,,, called energy audit which is meant to speak to housewives I guess. Church calls me and wants me to sit in, I figure energy audit. No,,, its a program they come around and change some lamps in the closets from CFL to led. No one will save enuf electric to cover the gas this wasted in 50 years, they cant even call it what it is, light bulb changing. Nothing at all to do with an audit. Not one single question as to where the demand is, nothing, some nice guy they got to change lamps doesnt know squat.
Then we blame the new generation for the faults, who comes up with these schemes?
Seems they have college degrees mainly used to word stuff that dont make any sense. The rural outfit, Cherryland Electric a whole different show, nearly everyone knows everything, the field engineers have actually ran a wire before, the one from the big outfit is still the same dunce with a clipboard he was 20 years ago and still doesnt know much.

 

[Sberry]

I agree about the paperwork. I figured in India they must just give up and socialize it, would be cheaper and easier.

 

[Besoeker3]

Just a larger version of what I've seen in many crawlspaces and attics.

I hope I never have to encounter something like that in real life !!!!

 

[garbo]

I'm half-tempted to turn in my PE license for only knowing about 10% of this.

Seriously though, great info. Thanks for taking the time to post.

Years ago we had a prima Donna know it all recent engineer graduate of what he always bragged one of the best engineering schools in the USA. He started going out thru our large plant and telling maintenance mechanics how to do there job. He looked down at a 5 HP motor that was connected to a pump. He asked the mechanics what's the thing between the motor & pump. Instead of the mechanic telling him it was just a run of the mill common coupling he told him it was a harmonic balancer. We loved the engineers who were not very good at their jobs. We got tons of overtime because of them. Best was when they came to us on a Friday afternoon telling us to just run an extension cord for a new 480 volt machine that draw over 40 amps and tech was flying in that Monday to perform start up. Three sparkies each got 10 hours of Sunday triple time for it

 

[drcampbell]

I'm half-tempted to turn in my PE license for only knowing about 10% of this.
Seriously though, great info. Thanks for taking the time to post.

Knowing the history can often simplify and expedite troubleshooting.

 

[dylanmitchell]

Will UK 230/110 volt 50hz motors hold up when used on US 120/240 60hz? UK 230 volts variance is -6%, +10%. This gives an allowed voltage range of 216.2 volts to 253.0 volts. UK 110 using the same variance would be 105.6 volts to 121 volts, above the variance for US 120 volt.
Motors are more tolerant of variance but I'm wondering how well Numatic vaccums the NQS250 110V 50 hz or NQS250 230V 50 hz would run in US. We have a few accessible 240 volt outlets in our house.

 

[drcampbell]

Will UK 230/110 volt 50hz motors hold up when used on US 120/240 60hz? ...

I didn't know there even was such a thing as 110-volt power in the United Kingdom.

It depends on what kind of motor it is. Induction motors are generally okay, with a few caveats and limitations.

Vacuum cleaners in the States have traditionally been equipped with series-wound brush-type universal motors which tolerate almost any frequency, including zero. (DC - direct current) I don't know what type of motor is usually used in the UK.

In the case of your Numatic NQS250 vacuum cleaner, the website says, "Power: 230V AC 50/60Hz". It doesn't mention 110 volts. I suspect "110V" is part of the model number, not an abbreviation for "110 volts".

NQS250 110V

The all-steel construction of today's NQS models is where the Numatic story started. We learnt from the 250 that the commercial cleaning business was rough and tough but, having said that, the majority of our early machines are still working 20+ years later. After all those years the NQS250 is...

numatic.com

While this portable vacuum cleaner will work on American 240-volt/60Hz power, it wouldn't be very useful here. Buildings in the States do not usually have 240-volt convenience receptacles.

 

[dylanmitchell]

There's a UK or EU regulation that requires stepping down UK mains voltage to 110V site safe supply. Commonly used on construction industry power tools. Many UK tradesmen carry 110V tools and a 230 to 110V step down converter rather than a set of 110V and 220V tools.

Most US homes don't have convenient access to 240-volt power but we have a few in the shop and even a few in the house.

 

[Besoeker3]

There's a UK or EU regulation that requires stepping down UK mains voltage to 110V site safe supply. Commonly used on construction industry power tools. Many UK tradesmen carry 110V tools and a 230 to 110V step down converter rather than a set of 110V and 220V tools.

Most US homes don't have convenient access to 240-volt power but we have a few in the shop and even a few in the house.

UK mains voltage is 230V residential. Industrial is generally 400V for small systems. For larger plants we often use 11 kV. Now and again there are a few it 132 kV, usually for steel mills.

 

[Solar Guy]

REA crews traveled through the American countryside, bringing teams of electricians along with them. The electricians added wiring to houses and barns to utilize the newly available power provided by the line crews. A standard REA installation in a house (post World War II) consisted of:

• A 60 amp, 230 volt fuse panel, with:

1. A 60 amp range circuit
2. A 20 amp kitchen circuit
3. Two or three 15 amp lighting circuits

A ceiling-mounted light fixture was installed in each room, usually controlled by a single switch mounted near a door. At most, one outlet was installed per room, since plug-connected appliances were expensive and uncommon.
Wiring was performed using type NM (nonmetallic
sheathed cable), insulated with asbestos-reinforced rubber covered with jute and tar.

History of REA

I also like to use this chart:
View attachment 2557797

And here I was told by an old motor guy that the ME gang always rated their motors lower than the service voltage (ie, 460v versus 480v) because they were convinced we EEs would lose ~20v through line losses, transformer losses, and so forth. Said with a straight face, but a twinkle in the eye.

 

[nunoslg]

Don't they usually include Y or D, such as in 480Y/277 or 240D/120?

No. For example, 208/120 or 240/120 you know if it is Y or delta by the voltage listed.

 

[nunoslg]

So 240/120 for three phase with a high leg and 120/240 for single phase? That seems easy to misunderstand; I will always include "high leg" in the descriptor if that's what it is.

Normally it is listed as Ampergage -Phase -Voltage 200/3/208/120V

 

[infinity]

No. For example, 208/120 or 240/120 you know if it is Y or delta by the voltage listed.

For Wye systems the letter Y is included in the descriptor which I believe is an IEEE standard such as 208Y/120 or 480Y/277. It's also directly from the NEC, a few examples:

240.85 Applications.
A circuit breaker with a straight voltage rating, such as 240V or 480V, shall be permitted to be applied in a circuit in which the nominal voltage between any two conductors does not exceed the circuit breaker’s
voltage rating. A two-pole circuit breaker shall not be used for protecting a 3-⁠phase, corner-grounded delta circuit unless the circuit breaker is marked 1φ–3φ to indicate such suitability.
A circuit breaker with a slash rating, such as 120/240V or 480Y/277V, shall be permitted to be applied in a solidly grounded circuit where the nominal voltage of any conductor to ground does not exceed the lower
of the two values of the circuit breaker’s voltage rating and the nominal voltage between any two conductors does not exceed the higher value of the circuit breaker’s voltage rating

250.140 Frames of Ranges and Clothes Dryers.
Frames of electric ranges, wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted cooking units, clothes dryers, and outlet or junction boxes that are part of the circuit for these appliances shall be connected to the equipment
grounding conductor in the manner specified by 250.134 or 250.138.
Exception: For existing branch-circuit installations only where an equipment grounding conductor is not present in the outlet or junction box, the frames of electric ranges, wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted
cooking units, clothes dryers, and outlet or junction boxes that are part of the circuit for these appliances shall be permitted to be connected to the grounded circuit conductor if all the following conditions are met.
(1) The supply circuit is 120/240-volt, single-phase, 3-wire; or 208Y/120-volt derived from a 3-phase, 4-wire, wye-connected system.