VOLTAGE TO GROUND WITH THE NEUTRAL GROUNDED

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bobby ocampo

bobby ocampo

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Will the man in the illustration be electrocuted if he touched the neutral. that is grounded or a current carrying conductor that is connected to earth?
 

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Perhaps I'm missing something that Larry saw but I've got to say yes he would in the very least feel it. Current takes all available paths back to source in proportion to resistance.
The graphic was to show that a seconday path was going from the arm through the body exiting the foot. Showing potential to have an impact on the heart, and possible cardiac arrest.
 
Sea Nile said:
I see what you did, you moved the man's arm to the ground side of the load.

I doubt he will feel anything, and certainly won't be electrocuted.
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His hand contact is on the grounded side (neutral). If you follow illustration of the current flow, hand is onto the conductor after some sort of utilization device (maybe a light) on the side returning to the grounded point (possibly in the panel board), this is a current carrying conductor.
If the hand was simply on the grounding conductor your assertion would be valid, but illustration is not showing that.

Terminology specifics can get you.

Real life experience: My helper working on a switch and wiring replacement. Breaker of circuit off. Suddenly he got a shock. Got a measurement of 80V neutral to ground. Neutral was tied together with one on another circuit, and when someone in another room turned on the light the current took all available paths to source, including through my helpers hand .
 
bobby ocampo said:
Will the man in the illustration be electrocuted if he touched the neutral. that is grounded or a current carrying conductor that is connected to earth?
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LarryFine said:
No. He should barely be subject to any voltage, only that caused by voltage drop.
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Neutral VD will make difference and under certain conditions may be deadly,
Electrocution used to mean 'death', it doesn't now so we need to know how it is being used
 
As drawn he will probably be just fine, he is only in danger if there was a break in the conductor between his hand and the source, or if there was a load between where he touched and the source
 
Have you tried to measure the voltage of the grounded current carrying conductor in relation with the ground?

Fred B said:
Perhaps I'm missing something that Larry saw but I've got to say yes he would in the very least feel it. Current takes all available paths back to source in proportion to resistance.
The graphic was to show that a seconday path was going from the arm through the body exiting the foot. Showing potential to have an impact on the heart, and possible cardiac arrest.
Click to expand...
re
 
ptonsparky said:
To add a twist: the person is standing in mud with wet shoes; In a pool, tub, or freshwater lake?

Electrocuted mean death or shock?
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What do you think is the reason why the man will not be electrocuted if one line is connected to ground and somebody touched this current carrying conductor?
 
Fred B said:
His hand contact is on the grounded side (neutral). If you follow illustration of the current flow, hand is onto the conductor after some sort of utilization device (maybe a light) on the side returning to the grounded point (possibly in the panel board), this is a current carrying conductor.
If the hand was simply on the grounding conductor your assertion would be valid, but illustration is not showing that.

Terminology specifics can get you.

Real life experience: My helper working on a switch and wiring replacement. Breaker of circuit off. Suddenly he got a shock. Got a measurement of 80V neutral to ground. Neutral was tied together with one on another circuit, and when someone in another room turned on the light the current took all available paths to source, including through my helpers hand .
Click to expand...
Have you analyzed where the 80 volts came from? Is the source 3 phase ungrounded delta in your real life experience? Did you measure the line to ground voltage for each line?
 
Fred B said:
Death would be possible with as little as 50 milliamps.
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Are you sure that it is not the voltage that drives the current in electricity? Ever wonder why code warns against voltage not current? DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE? Will you be electrocuted with very low voltage?
 
Sea Nile said:
As drawn he will probably be just fine, he is only in danger if there was a break in the conductor between his hand and the source, or if there was a load between where he touched and the source
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Is it possible to have a load between the grounded current carrying conductor and the ground?
 
To me, ptonsparkey's "bird on a wire" is the simplest illustration. A bird sitting on a bare distribution wire receives no shock as both feet are at the same potential (if you measured voltage between the two points it would be zero).
To a degree, your drawing is the same situation. In theory, with the system grounded (connected to earth via grounding electrode), his feet and hand are the same as the birds legs...same potential.
In reality, due to resistance and other factors there will be potential. The value dependent on many factors, so there could be enough potential to cause a shock
 
augie47 said:
To me, ptonsparkey's "bird on a wire" is the simplest illustration. A bird sitting on a bare distribution wire receives no shock as both feet are at the same potential (if you measured voltage between the two points it would be zero).
To a degree, your drawing is the same situation. In theory, with the system grounded (connected to earth via grounding electrode), his feet and hand are the same as the birds legs...same potential.
In reality, due to resistance and other factors there will be potential. The value dependent on many factors, so there could be enough potential to cause a shock
Click to expand...
The bird on the wire is an illustration of step potential. Very low current and the resistance between the two feet of the bird has very small voltage
 
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