VOLTAGE TO GROUND WITH THE NEUTRAL GROUNDED
- Thread starter bobby ocampo
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LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
No. He should barely be subject to any voltage, only that caused by voltage drop.
Fred B
Senior Member
- Location
- Upstate, NY
- Occupation
- Electrician
Perhaps I'm missing something that Larry saw but I've got to say yes he would in the very least feel it. Current takes all available paths back to source in proportion to resistance.
The graphic was to show that a seconday path was going from the arm through the body exiting the foot. Showing potential to have an impact on the heart, and possible cardiac arrest.
The graphic was to show that a seconday path was going from the arm through the body exiting the foot. Showing potential to have an impact on the heart, and possible cardiac arrest.
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
To add a twist: the person is standing in mud with wet shoes; In a pool, tub, or freshwater lake?
Electrocuted mean death or shock?
Electrocuted mean death or shock?
I see what you did, you moved the man's arm to the ground side of the load.
I doubt he will feel anything, and certainly won't be electrocuted.
Fred B
Senior Member
- Location
- Upstate, NY
- Occupation
- Electrician
Death would be possible with as little as 50 milliamps.
Fred B
Senior Member
- Location
- Upstate, NY
- Occupation
- Electrician
His hand contact is on the grounded side (neutral). If you follow illustration of the current flow, hand is onto the conductor after some sort of utilization device (maybe a light) on the side returning to the grounded point (possibly in the panel board), this is a current carrying conductor.
If the hand was simply on the grounding conductor your assertion would be valid, but illustration is not showing that.
Terminology specifics can get you.
Real life experience: My helper working on a switch and wiring replacement. Breaker of circuit off. Suddenly he got a shock. Got a measurement of 80V neutral to ground. Neutral was tied together with one on another circuit, and when someone in another room turned on the light the current took all available paths to source, including through my helpers hand .
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
Neutral VD will make difference and under certain conditions may be deadly,
Electrocution used to mean 'death', it doesn't now so we need to know how it is being used
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
Sharing the neutral MWBC, or not, should not cause an 80v N-G difference until/unless that neutral path was interrupted. This is the reason MWBC are now required to disconnect all hots simultaneously.
bobby ocampo
Senior Member
Have you tried to measure the voltage of the grounded current carrying conductor in relation with the ground?
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bobby ocampo
Senior Member
What do you think is the reason why the man will not be electrocuted if one line is connected to ground and somebody touched this current carrying conductor?
bobby ocampo
Senior Member
Have you analyzed where the 80 volts came from? Is the source 3 phase ungrounded delta in your real life experience? Did you measure the line to ground voltage for each line?
bobby ocampo
Senior Member
Are you sure that it is not the voltage that drives the current in electricity? Ever wonder why code warns against voltage not current? DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE? Will you be electrocuted with very low voltage?
bobby ocampo
Senior Member
Is it possible to have a load between the grounded current carrying conductor and the ground?
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
Bird on a wire.
They are at the same potential.
bobby ocampo
Senior Member
What do you mean same potential? Please show illustration
A very loose connection, if it's arcing or heating up, then it's a load.
To me, ptonsparkey's "bird on a wire" is the simplest illustration. A bird sitting on a bare distribution wire receives no shock as both feet are at the same potential (if you measured voltage between the two points it would be zero).
To a degree, your drawing is the same situation. In theory, with the system grounded (connected to earth via grounding electrode), his feet and hand are the same as the birds legs...same potential.
In reality, due to resistance and other factors there will be potential. The value dependent on many factors, so there could be enough potential to cause a shock
To a degree, your drawing is the same situation. In theory, with the system grounded (connected to earth via grounding electrode), his feet and hand are the same as the birds legs...same potential.
In reality, due to resistance and other factors there will be potential. The value dependent on many factors, so there could be enough potential to cause a shock
bobby ocampo
Senior Member
The bird on the wire is an illustration of step potential. Very low current and the resistance between the two feet of the bird has very small voltage
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