voltmeters

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Re: voltmeters

quote:
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Originally posted by don_resqcapt19:
I can't tell you how many times I have seen excellent electricians get all screwed up trying to troubleshoot a problem using a high impedance input meter.
Don
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Isn't that a bit of an oxymoron. :) Now having said that, I have to tell you I can get all screwed up with any kind of meter. :eek:
 
Re: voltmeters

Originally posted by don_resqcapt19:
While meters have their use, a solenoid voltage tester is a far better tool in most cases, for the average electrician. I can't tell you how many times I have seen excellent electricians get all screwed up trying to troubleshoot a problem using a high impedance input meter.
Don
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Don I can not agree with that more, I have gotten Nexteled from some very sharp guys looking for help because they have '97 volts' on a dead conductor etc.

I try to tell them to use wiggys, all we really care about 99% of the time is if the circuit is on or off, not if the true RMS voltage is 122.342 or 122.343.

These guys always think they are better off with the $300 meter than the $25 meter.

For everyday line voltage troubleshooting I will take wiggys with a continuity test and do just fine.

My good meters only come out when specifically needed.
 
Re: voltmeters

jhr, would you rather he worked on things "without" the ability to know what he's dealing with?
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I'll put it to you this way and its only an example: the lion cub has to learn how to catch his prey avoid the dangers that surround it before it can survive on its own, and the baby lion learns by watching the mama lioness, as he watches it learns all the ways of a full grown lioness, the stealth, the stalk, the pouncing and the killer bite :cool: :cool:
 
Re: voltmeters

Should an apprentice have a meter of some kind YES.

Does he need sophisticated meters like a JW would have NO.

Should he buy a cheep 10 dollar meter NO. It is a waste of money.

I use a fluke T-5 most of the time. I have other meters, even bench meters, but they will confuse you if you dont understand how the meter works, and how it can fool you.

Can the fluke T-5 fool you.... YES and so can any measuring tool that one does not know how to use.

I suggest a new electrican get the T-5 for general use, and learn from there...
 
Re: voltmeters

FWIW, my first tester was a SQ D wiggy which was stolen, so I bought the second one.

Next I added an analogue Sperry 300 amp / 600 volt / Ohm meter, these two meters were all I needed for the first 10 years of my career, these are long gone now.

Since then things have changed. I have a pretty good array of meters and testers, but I think the wiggy (solenoid tester)and an analogue clamp on amp/volt/ohm meter should be the first meters even in this day of DMM's.

Some of my meters and indicators.

:)

Roger
 
Re: voltmeters

Originally posted by don_resqcapt19:
While meters have their use, a solenoid voltage tester is a far better tool in most cases, for the average electrician.
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That, and an extension cord, plugged into a known-good receptacle, make a very good diagnostic duo.
 
Re: voltmeters

jhr, I'm gonna put it this way, and I'm not even actually disagreeing with you for the most part.

An electrician, if he wants to be worth much or particularly competent, needs a solid, or at least parcial, understanding of electrical theory.

Here's something that was told to me when I was younger.

If I hear, I learn.
If I see, I know.
If I do, I understand.

I don't have any intention of undermining anyone's safty. I also think it's important to not hinder anyone's learning.

That's all I'm really trying to say.
 
Re: voltmeters

Physis agreed but this cat is a young apprentice. At this point in time all he needs is a tick tracer a wiggy and a continuity plug tester. He has no business in a hot panel or hot anything for that matter. If he wants exposure to that stuff it should be under the direct supervision of his electrician. That electrician should have to be the one providing the meter and any other higher end tools. As a apprentice I was fortunate enough to have a rock solid electrician who was willing to teach me all about the ins and outs of what I do for a living. Now as that young electrician today I have the same responsibilities to pass on my knowledge to my apprentice. However that does not mean that I will let him screw with anything hot without my direct supervision
 
Re: voltmeters

Physis agreed but this cat is a young apprentice. At this point in time all he needs is a tick tracer a wiggy and a continuity plug tester. He has no business in a hot panel or hot anything for that matter. If he wants exposure to that stuff it should be under the direct supervision of his electrician. That electrician should have to be the one providing the meter and any other higher end tools. As a apprentice I was fortunate enough to have a rock solid electrician who was willing to teach me all about the ins and outs of what I do for a living. Now as that young electrician today I have the same responsibilities to pass on my knowledge to my apprentice. However that does not mean that I will let him screw with anything hot without my direct supervision
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Very well put my friend, you can sit at my table and drink my wine anytime :cool: :cool:
 
Re: voltmeters

Originally posted by southernboys:
Physis agreed but this cat is a young apprentice. At this point in time all he needs is a tick tracer a wiggy and a continuity plug tester. He has no business in a hot panel or hot anything for that matter. If he wants exposure to that stuff it should be under the direct supervision of his electrician. That electrician should have to be the one providing the meter and any other higher end tools. As a apprentice I was fortunate enough to have a rock solid electrician who was willing to teach me all about the ins and outs of what I do for a living. Now as that young electrician today I have the same responsibilities to pass on my knowledge to my apprentice. However that does not mean that I will let him screw with anything hot without my direct supervision
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I agree. But a more important tool than a good meter for a 1st year, is that all important wire stretcher. :D
 
Re: voltmeters

a more important tool than a good meter for a 1st year, is that all important wire stretcher.
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Well its been 22 years and I still haven't found that darn thing, and to think that long pull in the blizzard of 93 it sure would have come in handy, "ALL WE NEED IS TWO MORE FEET CAPITAN!" just thinking about it makes me shiver :( .
 
Re: voltmeters

very, very good advice gentlemen, all of it! :) I always learn something from this forum. Now forgive my ignorance and teach me something else. Tell me what a "wiggy" and a "tick tracer" are. Perhaps I have used these under a different name and not known it. I have always kept a fluke 1AC1 in my pocket, but have learned never to rely to heavily on it, for it can fool you. :eek:
 
Re: voltmeters

I must say ... that "Thing in your pocket" is probably a type of "Tick Tracer" ... please forgive my "Smart-Alecness" ... EVERYBOBY KNOWS WHAT A "WIGGY IS" ...... How long you been in "The Trade" ... M :cool:
 
Re: voltmeters

I work in a small town and do not get the chance to see what is used or how things are done in the big, big world of electricity. This is why I am here in the forum. ;)
 
Re: voltmeters

A "wiggy" is a solenoid voltage tester, and a "tick tracer" is a non-contact voltage detector.
 
Re: voltmeters

The orignal solenoid voltage tester was made by a company called Wiggens. It was often called a Wiggy in the trade. I think that Square D owns that trademark now.
Don
 
Re: voltmeters

I've tried to avoid commenting further on the safety end of this, unfortunately I'm too weak and can't resist even against my own better judgement.

Safty first. obviously. Do we really need legal disclaimers everytime someone speaks?

I think it's possible for even an apprentice to use a meter safely. And I encourage it. (Both the use and the safety)

How many people die or are injured every year driving vehicles? I don't see anyone going bananas when someone threatens to drive a car. I know, apples and oranges. :roll:

Southernboy and jhr, I respectfully disagree, he needs a meter (and I'm pretty sure a wiggy qualifies as one of those) as well as a tic tracer. I do agree that supervision is wise.

I'm curious how many of the emergency room visits that result from using a meter are journeymen versus apprentices.

I don't know the answer. Just something to wonder about.

Edit: Removed a near redundant sentance.

[ January 23, 2006, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
 
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