WA Admin Test

[wawireguy]

Anyone here taken it? How much harder than the 01 test is it? I've heard the calcs part is rough. What type of calcs do they want you to know how to do? Thanks for any info!

 

[westernexplorer]

Yes, it is a 3 part exam. Theory & NEC part 1, Washington Statues and Rules part 2 & Major Load Calculations part 3. The part 3 Calculations are tough. Only a few of the questions are sizing conductors, of OCP devices. Most of the Calculations are FULL BLOWN Load calculations, Multi-Family, Commercial and Industrial. I had 2 Motels, 2 apartment complexes, 3 offices buildings and 1 Industrial building with 2 different occupancies.......Hardest Electrical exam I have ever taken....and I have taken and passed Master Electrical exams in Florida, Alabama, Connecticut, Oregon, Idaho, Maine and Colorado and now Washington State.

Good Luck

 

[resistance]

Go here:

http://www.lni.wa.gov/TradesLicensing/Electrical/LicenseExamEd/ExamInfo/ExamOutlines/default.asp

Then work from there........

 

[ray cyr]

This test really seems to be the luck of the draw. When I took it I got 5 major load calcs and 5 basic Art. 220 questions. Most everyone that I know that has taken it has had at least one optional two dwelling unit calc under 220.85, at least one large industrial complex usually with 2 tenants, and at least one 10 unit multi-family calc. For how I learn, I found Tom Henry's books to be the best for load calcs. Be sure you understand T.220.55
Best of luck, Ray

 

[Regularkevin]

I appreciate all the info you guys have offered. It will give me a chance to focus on those topics while I still have 2 years of apprenticeship left.

 

[brother]

Yes, it is a 3 part exam. Theory & NEC part 1, Washington Statues and Rules part 2 & Major Load Calculations part 3. The part 3 Calculations are tough. Only a few of the questions are sizing conductors, of OCP devices. Most of the Calculations are FULL BLOWN Load calculations, Multi-Family, Commercial and Industrial. I had 2 Motels, 2 apartment complexes, 3 offices buildings and 1 Industrial building with 2 different occupancies.......Hardest Electrical exam I have ever taken....and I have taken and passed Master Electrical exams in Florida, Alabama, Connecticut, Oregon, Idaho, Maine and Colorado and now Washington State.

Good Luck

Which is easier to take, the MASTER electrician test, or the Administrators?? Im told if you have a MASTER license then you dont need a j license and an Admin license because a master license is a combo of both.

And if you take the Admin license test and you already have a j license can you just combined the 2 after you pass the Admin test??

 

[charlie b]

Which is easier to take, the MASTER electrician test, or the Administrators??

I can't answer that one. I've only taken the Administrator test. Took me two tries to pass it.

Im told if you have a MASTER license then you dont need a j license and an Admin license because a master license is a combo of both.

That is true (in WA state, at least).

And if you take the Admin license test and you already have a j license can you just combined the 2 after you pass the Admin test??

Yes you can. It essentially saves you the cost of renewing two licenses, instead of renewing only one.

 

[charlie b]

IIt will give me a chance to focus on those topics while I still have 2 years of apprenticeship left.

Please note that you do not have to wait. There are no requirements for taking the Administrator test, other than that you have to pay the fee. After all, they let me take it, and my electrician license is just as a trainee with not yet a single hour of working experience credited to the license. Of course, being an engineer, I found the calculation portion to be easier than the Rules portion.

 

[rlc3854]

I have to ask, what is the purpose of the administrator "test"/"license"? What does it afford you you to do in the state of Washington?

 

[brother]

I have to ask, what is the purpose of the administrator "test"/"license"? What does it afford you you to do in the state of Washington?

An 'administrator' license lets you be able to start/or be part of the Electrical Contractors license. Every Electrical Contractor MUST have an Administrator that is overseeing and being sure that the electrical work is in compliance with the codes. Also when you are using your admin license for a contractor you CAN NOT use it for another. Only ONE (1) at a time.

Ive heard of guys that got in trouble for 'selling' their license to multiple contractors and signing off on the work they never saw.

 

[brother]

Please note that you do not have to wait. There are no requirements for taking the Administrator test, other than that you have to pay the fee. After all, they let me take it, and my electrician license is just as a trainee with not yet a single hour of working experience credited to the license. Of course, being an engineer, I found the calculation portion to be easier than the Rules portion.

This has always been a controversy, most jw s I know say it should be required for an 'administrator' to have had just as much actual field experience (jw card) before trying to OVERSEE other jw's. Ive actually seen some engineers that just dont know enough code to be 'engineering' electrical work/administrators, not trying to put anyone down just being honest. Ive seen where work/prints in the field had to be sent back because of serious code violations on the prints that needed to be corrected.

Also that 'requirement' of NOT haveing to wait to take the 'adminstrators' test seems to contradict the 'Master test' requirement. I believe you have to have at least 5 years as a jw before you can take the Master test, but you can take the 'administrators' test right way and then get it converted over so long as you have a jw license too??!! sounds like a loop hole that needs to be checked!

 

[charlie b]

I understand your concern, Brother. But I see things differently. I could legally, right now, start an electrical contracting company, or could serve at the Administrator in someone else’s company (BTW I have no intention of doing so). But that does not mean that I would be supervising journeymen electricians. I would not have to give work assignments, tell the workers which tools and materials they need, and correct them if they aren’t doing the installation work properly or efficiently. My responsibilities would be twofold: enforce code compliance, and enforce safety regulations. The test I took demonstrated that I know enough about these two things to be able to carry out those responsibilities. As to converting to a Master's licence, I would still have to go through the normal path of an electrician trainee for the minimum number of hours, and then pass the JW exam. By the time I were to do that (which again, I have no intention of doing), I will have gained as much knowledge and experience as any other Master, and would have earned the right to carry that license.

 

[brother]

I understand your concern, Brother. But I see things differently. I could legally, right now, start an electrical contracting company, or could serve at the Administrator in someone else?s company (BTW I have no intention of doing so). But that does not mean that I would be supervising journeymen electricians. I would not have to give work assignments, tell the workers which tools and materials they need, and correct them if they aren?t doing the installation work properly or efficiently. My responsibilities would be twofold: enforce code compliance, and enforce safety regulations. The test I took demonstrated that I know enough about these two things to be able to carry out those responsibilities. As to converting to a Master's licence, I would still have to go through the normal path of an electrician trainee for the minimum number of hours, and then pass the JW exam. By the time I were to do that (which again, I have no intention of doing), I will have gained as much knowledge and experience as any other Master, and would have earned the right to carry that license.

I know what the law says. I know its perfectly LEGAL for you start an ELECTRICAL contracting company WITHOUT ever doing ANY type of electrical work in your life or be someone elses Adminstrator. I'm only saying that some jws do not agree with it when a person hasn't had much hands on experience in the field. Some of them feel that to really have an understanding of BEING SURE THAT the "Electrical Contractor's work complies with all the appropriate electrical laws and rules" (as it says on the L&I website), is to actually have done some of it in the field.

It just seems like an 'overlooked' loop hole when its a requirement to have been a 'jw' for 5 years to take the masters test/license when its just a combination of both the jw and admin card (to save on money) and one does not have to wait or have any experience to take only the admin test/license. Would you not agree that this is a 'loop' hole here?

 

[brother]

Correction on time period

Correction on time period

I want to correct the time period of being a jw to take the test for master, its 4 years NOT 5!! I went to the laws and it says 4 years.


http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=19.28.191


d) To be eligible to take the examination for a master journeyman electrician certificate of competency the applicant must have possessed a valid journeyman electrician certificate of competency for four years

 

[Rockyd]

It just seems like an 'overlooked' loop hole when its a requirement to have been a 'jw' for 5 years to take the masters test/license when its just a combination of both the jw and admin card (to save on money) and one does not have to wait or have any experience to take only the admin test/license. Would you not agree that this is a 'loop' hole here?

I've had my Washington Administrator's license, and a Washington JW card, since 1993, and they have folded it into Master's license somewhere along the line. I can tell you that the difference when I took the two different tests were major differences.

Biggest difference is the that a JW can be a day one installer, or a 20 year JW the call out is still the same, you are there on a a "Certificate of Competency". The administrator is responsible to ensure electrical work complies with the laws and rules of the state, and that all proper electrical safety prcedures are used. The administrator is the responsible party in a legal sense.

 

[charlie b]

Would you not agree that this is a 'loop' hole here?

I would not. Nobody can use this to get around the requirements for performing electrical installation work. I can't do electrical work without being supervised by a JW. And I can't get a Master's license until I get 8000 hours of work performed under that supervision. That is the "check and balance" that maintains the integrity of the Master's license.

In the mean time, if I wanted to work as an Administrator, I believe that I could ensure that the "Electrical Contractor's work complies with all the appropriate electrical laws and rules," without having myself worked as an EC. Why? Because the laws and rules do not govern "installation means and methods," so much as they govern what must be in place, when the installation is completed.

 

[brother]

I would not. Nobody can use this to get around the requirements for performing electrical installation work. I can't do electrical work without being supervised by a JW. And I can't get a Master's license until I get 8000 hours of work performed under that supervision. That is the "check and balance" that maintains the integrity of the Master's license.

In the mean time, if I wanted to work as an Administrator, I believe that I could ensure that the "Electrical Contractor's work complies with all the appropriate electrical laws and rules," without having myself worked as an EC. Why? Because the laws and rules do not govern "installation means and methods," so much as they govern what must be in place, when the installation is completed.

I would have to respectfully disagree with you Charlie, the laws and rules DO govern the 'installation means and methods'. The laws and rules are just another way of saying the codes and regulations (ie RCW WAC, NEC). Just read the RCW AND WAC (as im sure you already have, ) those are CODES as well that must be followed.

 

[tom baker]

Which is easier to take, the MASTER electrician test, or the Administrators?? Im told if you have a MASTER license then you dont need a j license and an Admin license because a master license is a combo of both.

And if you take the Admin license test and you already have a j license can you just combined the 2 after you pass the Admin test??

The master is a harder administrator test, it has more questions.
To take the master you have to hold an adminstrators certificate, and been an journeyman for 4 years.

Tom
WA State Master Electrician

 

[tom baker]

I believe you have to have at least 5 years as a jw before you can take the Master test, but you can take the 'administrators' test right way and then get it converted over so long as you have a jw license too??!! sounds like a loop hole that needs to be checked!

Its not a loop hole (its 4 years) its the way the law was passed in 2003.
The administrator requirement was added in 1984 as before then there was no requirement on being an electrical contractor. Electricians have only been certified in Washington since 1973. We've had contractor licensing since 1919.

 

[brother]

Its not a loop hole (its 4 years) its the way the law was passed in 2003.
The administrator requirement was added in 1984 as before then there was no requirement on being an electrical contractor. Electricians have only been certified in Washington since 1973. We've had contractor licensing since 1919.

I typed a correction (stating its 4yrs instead of 5) at post #14 did you not see it?? also if a person has both a jw card and an admin card what real incentive do they have to get a master card other than just paying a little less in renewal fees?? I did the math it comes out to $67 less every 3 years. I think I might just try to take the admin test after finding this out. It should have less questions. Need to brush up on my calcs.