Want to be a better electricain

[brian john]

There is a lot posted by electrician about some of the failings of inspectors and engineers.

I have been fortunate enough to be involved in contracting, installations, testing, inspections and design. If you want to improve your electrical skills become an inspector and engineer not in your wallet but on every job you. Look for ways to improve the job before during and after. Look at the job from an inspectors eyes, be critical.

I guarantee you'll you improve your outlook of engineers and inspectors and become a better electrician.

Oh and I have some issues with engineers and inspectors.

 

[LarryFine]

Can I come work with you?

 

[iwire]

Brian I am sure you are correct.

I think electricians forget that the engineers job is not the same as our job.

I see it this way.

For most ECs the job is to get in, get it done, save money and time where possible, get out, start another with little regard for the big picture.

On the other hand I feel the EEs job is all about the big picture, the long term quality of the installation. It is their job to hold us to the job as designed.

While we are in the field complaining that the 'darn' EE over sized the conductors we don't know that the customer has told the EE they are expanding again next year etc.

Sure some EEs are lousy ..... so are many electricians.

 

[zbang]

The problem here is that many so-called engineers don't know much about the Art of Engineering. When I went to school in the '70s, it was pretty well hammered into us that proper engineering/design requires not only understanding that 2+2 = 4, but why it equals 4, how to add in general, and when 2 might not be the correct number in the first place. We were told that we -have- to answer not just what was requested, but look around the question for other ideas. (Or... ask why the conductor seems oversized; don't just complain that it is. Now, if the answer is BS, then maybe make some waves .) I figure it's part of my job to ask questions about a design. If someone has actually thought about my concern, great, even if it's not the answer I'd expected or hoped for. If they haven't thought about it, then maybe their job isn't finished.

There's also the problem of knowing one's limitations. For instance, I'm -terrible- with pipe, so I don't tell someone competent how to do it.

 

[jflynn]

There is a lot posted by electrician about some of the failings of inspectors and engineers.

I have been fortunate enough to be involved in contracting, installations, testing, inspections and design. If you want to improve your electrical skills become an inspector and engineer not in your wallet but on every job you. Look for ways to improve the job before during and after. Look at the job from an inspectors eyes, be critical.

I guarantee you'll you improve your outlook of engineers and inspectors and become a better electrician.

Oh and I have some issues with engineers and inspectors.

I have to agree with you,to me its all about communication- being up front with both an inspector and engineer makes for a better installation with less re-work.However we have all seen jobs with rather poor engneering leaving alot to be desired-thus putting the electrician on the front line to engineer the job AND get it done,and I have to beleive an engineer makes more money than us..

 

[zog]

The problem here is that many so-called engineers don't know much about the Art of Engineering. When I went to school in the '70s, it was pretty well hammered into us that proper engineering/design requires not only understanding that 2+2 = 4, but why it equals 4, how to add in general, and when 2 might not be the correct number in the first place. We were told that we -have- to answer not just what was requested, but look around the question for other ideas. (Or... ask why the conductor seems oversized; don't just complain that it is. Now, if the answer is BS, then maybe make some waves .) I figure it's part of my job to ask questions about a design. If someone has actually thought about my concern, great, even if it's not the answer I'd expected or hoped for. If they haven't thought about it, then maybe their job isn't finished.

There's also the problem of knowing one's limitations. For instance, I'm -terrible- with pipe, so I don't tell someone competent how to do it.

Easier said than done sometimes, many times equipment designs are changed simply to obsolete the last model of a product, not to improve on the design at all. Other designs are made poor on purpose to sell solutiions or upgrades. I could never stand working for an OEM as a EE, the waves I would make would cause worlwide flooding and famine.

 

[zbang]

I've often said that part of my job is to play the kid in the Emperor's New Clothes story- I'll tell people that they've got a problem and how to deal with it if I know, but it's not up to me to force them. I'm not the AHJ, marketing department, CEO, or whatever. I'm just the guy that finds potential problems and offers solutions.

A few years ago I worked for a company (now defunct) that was making a big network server. The amount of sloppy engineering was amazing, so many things were just forgotten or ignored. I escaped before the the project thrust on me failed (when 3 engineers separately say it'll take six solid months to test, and management says it's going to ship in three, fully tested, there is a bit of a disconnect).

 

[cadpoint]

There is a lot posted by electrician about some of the failings of inspectors and engineers.

I have been fortunate enough to be involved in contracting, installations, testing, inspections and design. If you want to improve your electrical skills become an inspector and engineer not in your wallet but on every job you. Look for ways to improve the job before during and after. Look at the job from an inspectors eyes, be critical.

I guarantee you'll you improve your outlook of engineers and inspectors and become a better electrician.

Oh and I have some issues with engineers and inspectors.

If I might cross thread on this post: http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?p=852148#post852148
Not that my thread was a shining moment

I apologize Tony !

I've been around Architects and Engineers for over half my life, again it would be a personal bias on my part and I too have an opinion of them.

Trained as a draftsman, you could say I have a different prospective to as to what appling drawings might mean! It is not the same thought process to me as it might be for others as I look at work!

My understanding of reading here of the three of four disciplines that are involved in your work is that people don't understand what the others job is period.

Education is the key!
When we get it that what is required by us IS to get the power there. Understand that an engineer usually is not concerned how we got it there. The inspector's job is easier cause they can see how we got it there. We'll all be better off!

 

[K8MHZ]

If you want to improve your electrical skills become an inspector and engineer not in your wallet but on every job you. Look for ways to improve the job before during and after. Look at the job from an inspectors eyes, be critical.

Bingo!

So far, that has worked for me!

 

[Buck Parrish]

There is a lot posted by electrician about some of the failings of inspectors and engineers.

I have been fortunate enough to be involved in contracting, installations, testing, inspections and design. If you want to improve your electrical skills become an inspector and engineer not in your wallet but on every job you. Look for ways to improve the job before during and after. Look at the job from an inspectors eyes, be critical.

I guarantee you'll you improve your outlook of engineers and inspectors and become a better electrician.

Oh and I have some issues with engineers and inspectors.

I bid on a job a while back, a big custom home. The guy didn't accept my bid.
So he got some one from the southern part of our continent to do the job for $12 .00 an hour. The owner/ contractor supplied all the material.
The rough in failed 4 times.
So for the trim out he called me to inspect the final before he called the city inspector. He said that he actually wanted me to " fix a few things". I told him I would not work on it. Just inspect and make a list.
So I got to play inspector and I found all kinds of things. ( Three pages) Being a contractor of course I know a lot of the tricks that these hacks use.
The owner has been useing me on all his other custom homes or I would have not done it at all.
Point is, it would be good to have to be required to have been an electrical contractor before one can become an electrical inspector.

The (HACK) term I learned on this forum, and I like it.

 

[dcspector]

The
Point is, it would be good to have to be required to have been an electrical contractor before one can become an electrical inspector.

I agree,

Example: Job opportunity Electrical Inspector

Min. qualifications 10 years experience as a Journeymen Electrician and must be ICC Certified as Commercial Electrical Inspector and Residential Electrical Inspector.

Salary: 35k to 55k.......$ is the problem.