washer and dryer issue?

[zappy]

hi,a customer called and said that when he turned on his washer it wouldn't work and then half his house wouldn't work.then when he turned on his dryer everything came on and worked.anyone heard of this?

 

[mdshunk]

Yes, indeed. Classic for open neutral. That needs attention right away.

 

[emahler]

unless it's an electric dryer...then he may have lost a phase and got a backfeed through the 240V dryer....seen that before...

 

[electricalperson]

if half his house works then he might of lost a phase. an open neutral will make the whole house not work if im not mistaken.

 

[mdshunk]

unless it's an electric dryer...then he may have lost a phase and got a backfeed through the 240V dryer....seen that before...

Crap, yes. What was I thinking. Yes, open hot, not open neutral. Duh. Time for bed...

 

[jrannis]

hi,a customer called and said that when he turned on his washer it wouldn't work and then half his house wouldn't work.then when he turned on his dryer everything came on and worked.anyone heard of this?

If they have an electric range, turning it on can keep the lights lit, You can use it as a "half the house" dimmer too:grin:

 

[LarryFine]

Crap, yes. What was I thinking. Yes, open hot, not open neutral. Duh. Time for bed...

That's okay, your secret's safe with me. :smile:

Yes, indeed, your customer has one open phase.

Could be anywhere from the utility transformer to the panel's main breaker.

 

[e57]

If they have an electric range, turning it on can keep the lights lit, You can use it as a "half the house" dimmer too:grin:

Could also start a neat little fire here and there too.... :roll:

Anyway - from here.... On the other side of the computer, or over the phone I don't think we can tell if it is a lost phase (back feeding through a 240 appliance) or a lost neutral (The dryer just changing the load balance) from the describtion. Either way, high/low voltage shifting and series connection of items not meant to be, can be dangerous IMO, and warrants immediate attention as Marc said in post 2.

When I get calls like that - I usually tell whoever to go shut off the main, (starting with words to the effect of "don't panic - it could be nothing, or could be very serious") wait for me to get there. And keep an eye/nose out for smoke, they notice any call the Fire Dept. Many years ago I got a call like this one - I got there and the Fire Dept was putting out a small fire in the kitchen. (They destroyed most of the kitchen doing so....)

 

[e57]

if half his house works then he might of lost a phase. an open neutral will make the whole house not work if im not mistaken.

Depends on where the lost neutral is. Someone here on the forum has a good power point on the subject. But if there is a cut or resistive neutral in a panel, or main, or even out on the service drop all of the loads on the phases will then be in series with eachother. This then shifts the balance (depending on load) of the potential at each load. For instance you have a single phase residence 240/120. The neutral is cut the load is in series at 240 instead of paralel and you have a steady load of 100w on each phase - you would not notice the difference. But if you change the load so that there is less on one, more on the other, the voltage seen on one phase will be higher - the other lower. A 197 volt light bulb may just be REALLY BRIGHT. A 197 volts across a power supply for say a television can burst into flames. The other phase would have 43 volts...

In this case, you could have nothing in half the house 'seem' to work, then turn on the 240 dryer or oven and balance the load much more equally - but not fully. And get for instance 130, and 110.... Everything 'seems' to work normal again....

If you were only getting whats left of only one phase (A) throught the load to back feed the other (B), you would have 120 on (A), and only whats left on (B). Depending on the kw of the dryer - much less than 120 nominal. Not enough IMO to make it seem as if it were working OK.

 

[frenchelectrican]

480 sparky do have the powerpoint show with open netual circuit and explain why real breif and right to the point.

If he [ 480 sparky ] reading this i will mention that i recomned him for good powerpoint for it and somehow i wish they make that part sticky [ if the mod's is ok with this set up so other members can able click on that link.

Merci, Marc