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Washing machine causing LED R30s to flicker

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Blaine25168

Member
Location
Texas
Occupation
Electrician
Hello, I was looking for any information and or ideas to fix the following:


We wired a new construction home In 2022. The homeowners washing machine is causing a noticeable flicker. The flicker is only effecting the branch ciruits that are on the same leg as the washing machine breaker. This only happens when the washer is in the agitate cycle. If you switch the washer breaker to the other leg, the flickering happens in the other branch circuits.

Trying to avoid running a new HR to the main panel. Any information is welcome, thank you.
 
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HEYDOG

Senior Member
Blaine25168 said:
Hello, I was looking for any information and or ideas to fix the following:


We wired a new construction home In 2022. The homeowners washing machine is causing a noticeable flicker. The flicker is only effecting the branch ciruits that are on the same leg as the washing machine breaker. This only happens when the washer is in the agitate cycle. If you switch the washer breaker to the other leg, the flickering happens in the other branch circuits.

Trying to avoid running a new HR to the main panel. Any information is welcome, thank you.
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Are the lights on a dimmer?
 
D

__dan

Senior Member
The led likely has a very inexpensive power supply driver that functions with noisy power input but the filtering (got cut from the budget) and passes noise to the output. So not really defective in that scenario nor even defective by design.

You could add the line side filter to the lighting power circuit as an adder if the customer wants to pay the extra. We already know the customer wants someone else to pay the extra, so you could advise ignoring the flicker unless the lamp can be proven defective.

It could be something like that. The lamp is susecptible to to other wise inconsequential line side noise and displays the noise in the lighting output, while itself not being defective. I know advising to ignore the flicker it not what the customer wants to hear, but proposing a line side filter to the lighting circuit could be a seller ( an adder, something the lamp manufacturer left out).
 
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HEYDOG

Senior Member
Blaine25168 said:
The lights are on regular rocker switches.
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I have had leds flicker before typically when on a dimmer. I had good quality leds and dimmers. This was on houses that weren’t on the market yet so I just replaced with regular toggle. Are all of the lights flickering at the same time? I would suggest calling the manufacturer of the leds to see if this is a common problem and if it is what is the solution. The way things are manufactured these days there seems to be a big problem with compatibility and it falls on the electrical contractors! I might contact the manufacturer of the washing machine also…even though highly doubtful that they will say it is an issue with their equipment.
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Are incandescent bulbs flickering, too? If so, it's a "real" voltage issue, not just noise.

Try an incandescent bulb in a light and see whether it flickers or changes the LED flicker.

Perhaps it's the washer circuit that needs filtering, not the lighting circuit.
 
synchro

synchro

Senior Member
Location
Chicago, IL
Occupation
EE
LarryFine said:
Are incandescent bulbs flickering, too? If so, it's a "real" voltage issue, not just noise.

Try an incandescent bulb in a light and see whether it flickers or changes the LED flicker.
Click to expand...

If an incandescent bulb also flickers, it would be informative to check whether it also flickers when the bulb is placed on the other leg, even if the flickering is less apparent. That's because a peak in the current draw of the washer would momentarily increase the L-N voltage on the other leg, because the voltage drop on the neutral would be in-phase with that other line voltage. An incandescent would momentarily get brighter with such an increase, but an LED light might not (which is what the OP is observing).
If instead there's no flickering of an incandescent on the other leg, then the impedance on the neutral is not likely to be a significant contributor to flickering occurring on LED lights.

If testing with an incandescent shows flickering, it may be helpful to determine quantitatively how impedances at the panel busses are contributing to the flickering issue. I suggest measuring the L1-N, L2-N, and L1-L2 voltages on the panel busses when say a 1500W heater load is placed first on one leg, and then measured again when the heater is on the other leg. Then you can determine how much voltage drop is occurring at each of the L1, L2, and neutral busses with the current that's being applied. If, for example, there appears to be an excess drop on the neutral then you can take steps from there to help isolate the problem area.
 
A

Amps

Electrical Contractor
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical, Security, Networks and Everything Else.
Longshot here: Is the washer's receptacle a GFI? If so, try exchanging it with a standard type.
 
James L

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
ptonsparky said:
Would have been nice if anyone had responded with "Hey, that worked!"
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I can tell you one thing that doesn't work well, and my fix...

Leviton slide dimmers with Feit recessed LED trims.

I'm currently working my 3rd job with that combination selected, and *not all* the lights strobe at the brightest setting. Only about half of them do it.

Going through the trim adjustment sequence on the dimmers offers no help.

My fix? A thin cardboard strip, about 3/16" x 3/4"
Fold in half (not creased) and insert it into the slider slot of the dimmer, thereby limiting the slider from going all the way up 👍👍

I know, it won't help with a washing machine 😑
 
ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
James L said:
I can tell you one thing that doesn't work well, and my fix...

Leviton slide dimmers with Feit recessed LED trims.

I'm currently working my 3rd job with that combination selected, and *not all* the lights strobe at the brightest setting. Only about half of them do it.

Going through the trim adjustment sequence on the dimmers offers no help.

My fix? A thin cardboard strip, about 3/16" x 3/4"
Fold in half (not creased) and insert it into the slider slot of the dimmer, thereby limiting the slider from going all the way up 👍👍

I know, it won't help with a washing machine 😑
Click to expand...
Sounds like Field Engineering at its best!
 
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