Watch Out on Dimmers, Motion Switches

[jmellc]

Saw a situation recently. Prints called for a 3 way motion switch at one end and a standard 3 way switch at other. Pretty normal all the years I've done this stuff.

Foreman had to order a motion switch, no supplier had one on hand (?). On trimout, we installed and it would not work. Started out good, but if other switch was flipped, it killed the motion switch totally. We checked travellers, hot and load, the usual stuff with 3 ways. All correct. Then another look at the fine print with the sensor. Turns out, to use it as 3 way, it has to have another unit at far end but not same one. Another model. Something else to order.

Products are getting more complicated while time to analyze them is more scarce than ever. This has never been a leisurely business but it is extreme today. I never start any job or service call without the "how long" calls starting from first minute.

I have also had major issues with programmable switches. I did them 15 years ago with no trouble, just follow the printed inserts. The last couple I did a year ago, I had to call tech assistance. A boss ordered a fancy digital time clock for a project at his church. After 2 hours fighting with it, I had to tell him he would have to program it. And I am better read than the average person.

Some of you may have already seen this. Keep this stuff in mind whenever you order products. A lot of booby traps await.

 

[LarryFine]

I got a 3-way motion-sensor switch that works with a standard 3-way switch at HD for my mom.

 

[jmellc]

I got a 3-way motion-sensor switch that works with a standard 3-way switch at HD for my mom.

Glad to hear this. I’ll check next time I’m there. HD is full of surprises on what they have and don’t have. I buy riser lamps there that most supply houses no longer sell.

 

[kwired]

Motion sensing and three way don't seem to be something that one should try to combine, you can't successfully expect a manual and an automatic control to work together at same time.

 

[jmellc]

Motion sensing and three way don't seem to be something that one should try to combine, you can't successfully expect a manual and an automatic control to work together at same time.

It was what prints called for so he really didn't give it a lot of thought. Lots of other crazy issues came with that job too. You may be right on that. I do know dimmer switches have always been dimmer at one end and standard 3 way switch at other. I do see a need for multiple motion controls though in a large room with more than 1 entrance. Small rooms seem to do OK with the ceiling mount low voltage MC's. Not sure how far their range is. Haven't worked with them in some time.

After this, I know to check out any 3 way MC devices and figure out what to order.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Some of the products will work with a standard 3 way but you need to wire it differently. You cannot wire it so it turns off power to the main sensor.
Adding the remote device usually gives you sensor at both locations.

 

[romex jockey]

Automation has always sold well to technocrats , but the devil is always in the details ~RJ~

 

[kwired]

Some of the products will work with a standard 3 way but you need to wire it differently. You cannot wire it so it turns off power to the main sensor.
Adding the remote device usually gives you sensor at both locations.

Never have run into this, but seems pointless to me to even try to integrate a three way switch with motion detection. A manual override (on or off) makes sense but to turn off the light at a three way switch location, then take one step and the motion detection turns it back on - what is the point here? If you leave the area the motion detector turns the lights off after it's programmed delay anyhow in most cases.

 

[LarryFine]

Never have run into this, but seems pointless to me to even try to integrate a three way switch with motion detection. A manual override (on or off) makes sense but to turn off the light at a three way switch location, then take one step and the motion detection turns it back on - what is the point here? If you leave the area the motion detector turns the lights off after it's programmed delay anyhow in most cases.

I can think of a situation, which I had at my mom's townhouse. Light on the ups one faces thtairs hall ceiling, three-way switch at the top of the stairway, and one at the bottom. The stairway is three-sided, so the light reaches the downstairs floor.

I put a three-way motion sensor switch in the downstairs box, which faces the front door and foyer, so any movement downstairs lights up the whole area. The upper switch allows her to turn the light on when descending, or off after ascending.

You seem to believe both switches are always within the motion-sensed area. Without the three-way function, there would be no good way to use a motion sensor in her situation. I don't understand the objection to the three-way; what's the down-side?

 

[kwired]

I can think of a situation, which I had at my mom's townhouse. Light on the ups one faces thtairs hall ceiling, three-way switch at the top of the stairway, and one at the bottom. The stairway is three-sided, so the light reaches the downstairs floor.

I put a three-way motion sensor switch in the downstairs box, which faces the front door and foyer, so any movement downstairs lights up the whole area. The upper switch allows her to turn the light on when descending, or off after ascending.

You seem to believe both switches are always within the motion-sensed area. Without the three-way function, there would be no good way to use a motion sensor in her situation. I don't understand the objection to the three-way; what's the down-side?

I did a relatively small school building once - occupancy sensors were spec'd in nearly all of it. Main corridor had multiple ceiling mounted occupancy sensors, all connected in parallel, any movement in entire corridor kept the lights on. Trying to integrate some kind of three way switch I would think would complicate things. No need to turn lights off after last occupant leaves - they will automatically turn off after programmed delay after last detecting motion.